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In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

bbc.com

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Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#71

Post by _0nac »

gota wrote: post #43
dakial1 wrote: post #7

That's not overall in Brazil. I live in Sao Paulo and it's certainly not rude to arrive on time or closer to that time. The time is usually a reference of "arrive after that time" and people will arrive in the hour or two after the time set. Usually closer friends will arrive earlier and not so close friends will arrive late because the party will be already full.

I have no idea where the author got the generalization that this is a rule "everywhere in Brazil". It's at most more or less a custom in Rio , and no other places that I know of. In southern Brazil not arriving within half hour of the appointes time is in fact disrespectful Besides this is only for social appointments . Try to arrive a couple hours late for a meeting and you'll find yourself talking to your boss aboi…

I used to work in Indonesia, with Indonesian clients. Scheduling a meeting for 10 AM and not having anybody show up until 11 was normal; showing up four hours late and shrugging it off with "macet" (traffic) was not unusual. (Then again, Jakarta jams really can be that bad.)

They have a word for it too: jam karet, or "rubber time".

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#72

Post by ufo »

Myrmornis wrote: post #67

Truly absurd generalizations about a vast and complex country. You’d have thought we’d outgrown this sort of crass writing about other countries when we exited the nineteenth century.

And the other comments in this discussion thread are even worse than the article... :(

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#73

Post by Klover »

gricardo99 wrote: post #56
lostlogin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applied to other countries, what did the second one teach that the first didn’t?

repetitio est mater studiorum “Repetition is the mother of all learning”

This is not useful in the slightest. What was different after the war was a late 20th century boost in economy for Japan. Does Uganda learn as much every day because of a quote?

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#75

Post by wozniacki »

cm2187 wrote: post #68
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

It's amusing and in line with what my grand mother who grew up in the early 1900s Indochina told me about her (french) dad doing business there. The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. On a longer time scale, it is hard when you look at Italy or Greece today to think of how the sa…

  The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and
  men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation
  to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first 
  opportunity.
What has been the observation off late of those very same peoples? Have the perceptions markedly changed? If so, how?

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#76

Post by cm2187 »

andersonmvd wrote: post #20

I hope you all remember that Brazil is too big to assume that everyone is the same, thus everyone will be late to all appointments. It happens a lot, yes. But be careful to label people in advance. Many (!) Brazilians work overseas, including in Germany, and I'm sure those are not late as the article suggests for example :) Also, what would be crazy for many people that live in small countries compared to Brazil, is…

You can’t negate cultural traits. A population is a distribution of characters and one individual may be anywhere on the distribution, but there are still noticable differences on average. And it is not wrong to describe a typical character, keeping in mind that the individual you are facing may be at odds with national traits.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#77

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

ufo wrote: post #70
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

I am not sure a racist account of 1915 Japan is the best source to explain Brazil's technology sector, to say the least.

I agree that a racist account of 1915 Japan doesn't really say very much about what's going on with Brazil's economy. But I do think it's important to notice that when the BBC is saying something like "Brazilians are always late" there might be more going on than just a lazy culture.

I was hoping someone whose started a business in Brazil would come along and tell me what it's like. I really know nothing about the country.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#78

Post by pdyck »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #26
acchow wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's 20 people going to a party, does anyone think the "start time" is really when you're supposed to be there? I think of it more as "don't come before this time".

Depends on the culture. Historically if you told a German 5:00, that meant 5:00 - nor 4:59, not 5:01. "Fashionably late" is an American thing.

In Germany it's the same for parties or meeting with friends. If it is work-related most people tend to be on time.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#79

Post by jakidud »

aikinai wrote: post #30
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

That’s fascinating! Does the book have any insight into how Japan made the complete 180° in I guess a few decades? The Meiji Restoration was already incredible but I thought the work ethic was there throughout and helped make it possible. I had no idea there was also a revolution of work ethic.

There is a podcast episode by Dan Carlin which I'm listening to which goes into this issue in depth. Basically according to him the Japanese basically "imported" values of warfare from the Samurai class into the general population and created an expectation of going 'above and beyond' for even ordinary citizens.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#80

Post by Lutzb »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #50
godzilla82 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious if the German trait you mentioned you have witnessed first hand or hearsay?

I experienced it first-hand, thought I admit it has been many years since I've spent any time in Germany and I fully recognize that culture changes over time so I have no idea if this is still how it's done. That's why I used the word "historically" in my original statement.

German here. Punctuality is still valued highly. In a business context it is considered very rude not to be there exactly on time. You are seen as untrustworthy, if you can't honor a simple agreed upon time.
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