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You Can't Innovate Like Apple

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Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#51

Post by mmorris »

thought_alarm wrote: post #13

I'm reminded of the story of NUMMI [1], the American automobile plant that was a 1980s joint venture between GM and Toyota. (It was covered in an episode of This American Life). In a nutshell, the story of NUMMI involves American GM workers building Toyota-designed/GM-branded vehicles using Toyota's radically different manufacturing processes. The plant itself was a smashing success for GM; the plant achieved much hi…

Slightly off-topic, but interesting - Tesla bought the NUMMI plant this year at a huge discount. They plan to build the Model S there, and owning a factory was a requirement of Tesla receiving the $465 million government loan they got.

According to Wired, the plant had been recently valued at nearly $1 billion, but Tesla was able to purchase it for $42 million (it was being shut down because of the recession and after GM pulled out).

Sometimes it's about more than just innovation.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#52

Post by andreyf »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #26
andreyf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think we'll live to having a DIY manufacturing unit that builds me an iPhone 4?

I think it is closer than you think. It won't be in your home but there will be shops like a Kinkos where you can send a design and pick-up any number of finished products. Check out these people who will turn a design into finished boards in just a few days: http://www.screamingcircuits.com/ There are probably a dozen companies like them right now, I would guess it will be less than 5 years until there is one in eve…

I think when you look at the details, there are a million things custom designed manufacturing processes do that general purpose manufacturing simply can't, so if it ever does happen, I hope it doesn't happen at the expense of taste.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#53

Post by yardie »

notahacker wrote: post #44
bad_user wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not enthusiastic about the App Store as a developer, but as a user I'm pretty happy as it is the best app store I've seen judging by the quality and number of the apps available. Surely I'm seeing Android taking over just because it will sell more devices, but the Android Marketplace is really shitty ... I can't even sell or buy apps for Christ's sake, as my country is not on their list (I can do both from the A…

From the consumer point of view, the App Store could be _much_ better at finding relevant apps and the iTunes integration is pretty irritating

I'm of the mind that Apple is like most companies that is has a runaway product, they know what the defects are yet are reluctant to fix them. The App Store is exactly this. They could do a lot of things to improve but because their nearest competitor is so far behind they don't feel the need to right now.

Hopefully the coming amazon app store lights a fire under the ass of Google and Apple to get their shit together.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#54

Post by ody »

steveklabnik wrote: post #41
ody wrote: post #25

"Apple designs for #2. No other mass-consumer products company puts as much attention to detail into the fit and finish of the box—let alone the out-of-box experience." I'm sorry but no they do not put as much attention to detail into their products as you would think. They didn't even have multitasking in the iPhone until recently! And what was the antenna problems all about? All I see is just enough attention to de…

I'd actually argue the opposite; Apple pays so much attention to detail that they figured out that multitasking isn't really important, so they could just do it later. Copy and paste is awkward, it isn't absolutely necessary, they could just do it later. Even the antenna thing: only the tech press knows anything about this. Apple said that just under 2% of people returned an iPhone 4. During that whole scandal, I ask…

2 out of 5 is a really big issue and a massive lack of attention to detail. I really don't see how you could think otherwise.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#56

Post by extension »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #35
extension wrote: post #3

I think there are plenty of companies that innovate like Apple, but none of them make hardware. You can make a great piece of software with just a few programmers. But making a great gadget requires so many different specialized services and such a large scale operation that it's impossible to get everyone drinking the same kool-aid. If DIY manufacturing ever takes off, that's when you will see Apple caliber products…

This is a fascinating hypothesis but I predict a big caveat: Much of Apple's quality derives from standardization . Everyone with an iPhone 4 has the same iPhone 4. You can design a case, a bicycle mount, a Twitter client or a learn-to-juggle app for the iPhone 4 and know that everyone will have the same experience. Consider the world of free software, for example, where we have DIY manufacturing. Everyone can write…

A standard design can be done by one person and printed by millions. That's the theory anyway.

Perhaps a more realistic scenario is that cheap manufacturing tech reduces the barrier to entry enough that small startups can mass produce affordable gadgets, without contracting everything out.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#57

Post by fragmede »

cletus wrote: post #47
kenjackson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market research is generally extremely difficult to do well. And for consumer products its less clear how useful it is. Most people use consuer products and Apple engineers/designers are probably fairly close to their target market, which are early adopters (others fall in line after early adopters). And we should also be clear, Apple has tons of market data. These Apple stores I'm sure supply them tons of data, as a…

The Verizon iPhone story is both my favourite and most hated tech story. It's my most hated because I'm sick of hearing it. Every month it pops up. It's my favourite because it's a classic example of rumourmongering becoming "news" perpetuated by people who don't really understand Apple at all. See, it doesn't matter what % increase in revenue or market size Verizon would deliver to Apple, there is still one huge pro…

> CDMA technically doesn't support simultaneous voice and data.

So? Push voice as packets over data then. Not trivial but then Apple has an army of engineers for that.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#58

Post by extension »

kenjackson wrote: post #49
cletus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Verizon iPhone story is both my favourite and most hated tech story. It's my most hated because I'm sick of hearing it. Every month it pops up. It's my favourite because it's a classic example of rumourmongering becoming "news" perpetuated by people who don't really understand Apple at all. See, it doesn't matter what % increase in revenue or market size Verizon would deliver to Apple, there is still one huge pro…

"Anyone who thinks that Apple will release a CDMA version of the phone and then try to explain to consumers that version A can do this but version B can't is, well, off their rocker." Apple does this with every product they ship. And in some cases they have even more extreme cases. For example, upgrade to the latest iPod Nano and whoa, no camera. So wait, if I get the old version I get a camera and now I completely l…

For example, upgrade to the latest iPod Nano and whoa, no camera. So wait, if I get the old version I get a camera and now I completely lose it. But if I go up to the iPod touch I get the camera, but the classic line never had one?

But this is a deliberate choice by Apple, not one forced on them by technology. And users understand that this year's iPod Nano is a different product from last year's, with different features. iPhone CDMA vs iPhone GSM is gibberish to them.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#59

Post by kenjackson »

extension wrote: post #58
kenjackson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyone who thinks that Apple will release a CDMA version of the phone and then try to explain to consumers that version A can do this but version B can't is, well, off their rocker." Apple does this with every product they ship. And in some cases they have even more extreme cases. For example, upgrade to the latest iPod Nano and whoa, no camera. So wait, if I get the old version I get a camera and now I completely l…

For example, upgrade to the latest iPod Nano and whoa, no camera. So wait, if I get the old version I get a camera and now I completely lose it. But if I go up to the iPod touch I get the camera, but the classic line never had one? But this is a deliberate choice by Apple, not one forced on them by technology. And users understand that this year's iPod Nano is a different product from last year's, with different feat…

I'm not sure if customers care about the distinction of confusion caused at the initiative of Apple versus that caused at the initiative of the "technology".

Regarding GSM vs CDMA specifically, there is hardly been any type of outcry regarding voice/data on CDMA, even amongst people who move from GSM to CDMA. In fact, I've never herad anyone complain about it. The only real complaint I've heard about CDMA is that you can't use it anywere, except the USA and like three other countries. But no one says, "I can't use voice and data on my phone".

In any case I think we're bickering about a meta issue. I really couldn't care less if Apple goes to Verizon or not. I'm not on Vertizon and I don't want an iPhone. What I do believe is that Apple has a very good understanding of what it means to go to Verizon.

Re: You Can't Innovate Like Apple

#60

Post by trustfundbaby »

jscore wrote: post #36
ody wrote: post #25

"Apple designs for #2. No other mass-consumer products company puts as much attention to detail into the fit and finish of the box—let alone the out-of-box experience." I'm sorry but no they do not put as much attention to detail into their products as you would think. They didn't even have multitasking in the iPhone until recently! And what was the antenna problems all about? All I see is just enough attention to de…

I'd say 99% of Apple's target market were fine without multitasking plus it's a nice battery saver. And this is coming from a hardcore Android fan with a Nexus One.

> I'd say 99% of Apple's target market were fine without multitasking plus it's a nice battery

I disagree. I think they put up with not having it believing it would come soon, or didn't realize how bad not having it would be (I know that last one describes me).

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