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The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

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Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#261
I'm not sure why blockchain has become a perennial 'love to hate' favorite on a forum dedicated to 'disruptive' startups. The cynic in me would say the people complaining are the ones who sold their bitcoin for $100 back in the day and cannot stand the fact that they're out millions for not being forward-looking enough.

If that describes you, go invest in a new blockchain tech. There aren't actually that many -- most of the ICOs of the last year were for stuff built on the Ethereum network. Sort through that a bit and you'll find companies building entirely new blockchains, some of them incorporating very good, forward looking ideas.

Blockchain is still very young. You haven't missed out on anything. Do some homework. Invest.

But nothing useful has been built on a blockchain!

Go make something. You're smart. In the best traditions of the software industry it's almost entirely FOSS. Absolutely nothing stopping you from building something useful. And there's lots of funding available for those that do.

Saying blockchain is worthless is like saying public key cryptography is worthless. Before e-commerce it was sort of a novelty (the need for security was always there, sure). Now it's ubiquitous, as is e-commerce. The latter would not be possible without the former.

Even if the development is / remains purely driven by greed, the introduction of new financial markets and new investment vehicles means it's here to stay. There is zero chance this genie is going back in the bottle. Every day there are announcements about uptake by the finance industry and by governments.

But that's a shallow view of the possibilities. How about tamper-proof voting for governments? Nearly fee-less remittances? Un-censorable communication? Completely transparent non-profits? Trust-less provenance / chain of custody?

Let's be real. Humans are terrible to each other. Being to able to fight greed and corruption with a little math -- in a trust-less, incorruptible, self-sustaining way -- is potentially history changing.

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#262
I bet on the blockchain.

More and more people will eventually realise, as we can now witness by the facebook's revenue drop, that the fraudulent behaviour of the ad networks combined with the echo chamber does not bring them prosperity.

Which in the end would decrease trust of the consumer.

And bet who do we have there to trust? Well lets see... the blockchain? BINGO!

I would rather believe a friend of mine or a relative(related trust party) than corrupted ad network.

Now lets explain the corrupted.

If i pay more for the ad, my product will be advertised more, without the actual benefit for the consumer?

That is corruption.

So i would place my bet on the trust in the future.

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#263

Here's the big reason I've gotten skeptical about blockchain: it seems like very few people are excited about actually using it. Almost everyone talking about it is excited about getting rich from trading currencies or starting a blockchain-based company. And plenty of people are excited about a grand vision for how it might transform society one day, or how it might solve problems they think other people might have.…

I am constantly surprised by this point of view. Blockchain is a solution to a number of problems that were previously unsolvable, yet so much of the discourse is around the idea that decentralised trust doesn't really solve any useful problems. True many of the applications are hype, but we need to recognise these for what they are and move on to more interesting things. To me the best example is the travel industry…

> Blockchain is a solution to a number of problems that were previously unsolvable,

Name one.

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#264

I'm not sure why blockchain has become a perennial 'love to hate' favorite on a forum dedicated to 'disruptive' startups. The cynic in me would say the people complaining are the ones who sold their bitcoin for $100 back in the day and cannot stand the fact that they're out millions for not being forward-looking enough. If that describes you, go invest in a new blockchain tech. There aren't actually that many -- most…

Blockchain tech has yet to deliver on any of these promises. Instead we have a mass of people speculating that it might, someday, in future, do a load of stuff that will make it more valuable than it is today.

It's only like saying "cryptography is worthless" if it turns out actually to have worth in the long term. It could be a lot like saying the Sinclair C5 is worthless.

I don't see that the introduction of new financial products based purely on artificial scarcity does mean that it's here to stay. There are indeed announcements quite frequently - most of them turn out to be pretty meaningless, often overhyped by parties with a vested interest.

> How about tamper-proof voting for governments?

Any scheme that allows votes to be verified, allows people to subvert the process by demanding verification.

> Nearly fee-less remittances?

We have those. Cryptocurrencies make these worse, irreversible, uninsured etc.

I'm not going to address everything point by point, but your post exemplifies the hype perfectly - it's a big cry to imagine possibilities, but unable to point to any real success

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SQL database has to be maintained by someone and with enough political or legal pressure the maintainer can be forced to change it, not so with a blockchain.

With enough political or legal pressure, you easily deploy a "51% attack" on the chain, and fork it as you like. Just as the NSA runs almost all the Tor exit nodes nowadays, what would stop a government from running the majority of blockchain nodes and gain consensus majority?

> With enough political or legal pressure, you easily deploy a "51% attack" on the chain, and fork it as you like.

A 51% attack can do two things: Enable "double-spend" attacks - where the hash rate majority will ignore a block which was previoulsy mined and had a "confirmed" transaction, and instead mine from an older block which didn't have that transaction - but instead place a transaction paying themselves the money back. Anyone accepting payments over Bitcoin should use their common sense as to how many confirmations they should wait depending on the amount of money being transmitted. A 51% attack might eventually be able to write a chain longer than the current one, but it will take some time - and there is the chance that if it fails, the miner will have wasted his electricity costs.

The other attack a 51% hash power can perform is denial-of-service. They can ignore blocks containing transactions they do not want to include in the chain, and as long as they continue to mine the longer chain, those transactions will not succeed.

51% attacks can not change the rules of Bitcoin (although there are many people who wrongly believe this to be the case). If you try to change the rules, the rest of the network will reject your blocks and ignore you.

> what would stop a government from running the majority of blockchain nodes and gain consensus majority?

The costs, primarily. In the case that one party did accumulate a majority of hashing power, the network participants can agree to change the hashing algorithm to one which runs on commodity hardware. That would be many billions of dollars of specialized hardware equipment going down the drain, and will only make the system stronger by encouraging individual participation. Monero did this successfully, and plans to do it each 6 months to deter attempts to game their proof-of-work.

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#266

I'm not sure why blockchain has become a perennial 'love to hate' favorite on a forum dedicated to 'disruptive' startups. The cynic in me would say the people complaining are the ones who sold their bitcoin for $100 back in the day and cannot stand the fact that they're out millions for not being forward-looking enough. If that describes you, go invest in a new blockchain tech. There aren't actually that many -- most…

> I'm not sure why blockchain has become a perennial 'love to hate' favorite on a forum dedicated to 'disruptive' startups. The cynic in me would say the people complaining are the ones who sold their bitcoin for $100 back in the day and cannot stand the fact that they're out millions for not being forward-looking enough.

I would say this attitude says more about you, and many others, in that you view bitcoin as a speculative asset rather than a stable currency to be used for the exchange of goods and services as initially advertised. This is not a positive argument for cryptocurrencies.

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#267
post #262

I bet on the blockchain. More and more people will eventually realise, as we can now witness by the facebook's revenue drop, that the fraudulent behaviour of the ad networks combined with the echo chamber does not bring them prosperity. Which in the end would decrease trust of the consumer. And bet who do we have there to trust? Well lets see... the blockchain? BINGO! I would rather believe a friend of mine or a rela…

Lol. a minus in a minute. hey, ad selling trolls... when will the layoffs?

:D

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am constantly surprised by this point of view. Blockchain is a solution to a number of problems that were previously unsolvable, yet so much of the discourse is around the idea that decentralised trust doesn't really solve any useful problems. True many of the applications are hype, but we need to recognise these for what they are and move on to more interesting things. To me the best example is the travel industry…

> Blockchain is a solution to a number of problems that were previously unsolvable, Name one.

Byzantine Generals Problem?

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#269

Here's the big reason I've gotten skeptical about blockchain: it seems like very few people are excited about actually using it. Almost everyone talking about it is excited about getting rich from trading currencies or starting a blockchain-based company. And plenty of people are excited about a grand vision for how it might transform society one day, or how it might solve problems they think other people might have.…

I am constantly surprised by this point of view. Blockchain is a solution to a number of problems that were previously unsolvable, yet so much of the discourse is around the idea that decentralised trust doesn't really solve any useful problems. True many of the applications are hype, but we need to recognise these for what they are and move on to more interesting things. To me the best example is the travel industry…

> I am constantly surprised by this point of view. Blockchain is a solution to a number of problems that were previously unsolvable, yet so much of the discourse is around the idea that decentralised trust doesn't really solve any useful problems.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Blockchain solved some very interesting technical problems, much like a lot of advanced math might do. But as you pointed out, the discourse is around whether or not blockchain solved any useful problems, not just interesting problems.

Like others, I have yet to be convinced of a use case for which blockchain is the best solution (other than cryptocurrencies).

Re: The Blockchain Bubble Will Pop, What Next?

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"They come from being able to do old things better: cheaper, more securely, free from the interference of trusted parties / government." Name one thing that blockchain has made, or is even close to making cheaper or more secure or trustless? The largest application of the technology has been bitcoin thus far, and bitcoin is more expensive; less secure than the traditional financial system (where if you get hacked yo…

I'll give you one. The year is 2010. And I am a normal citizen and I want to donate money to WikiLeaks without the banks colluding to stop my financial transaction, even though nobody has been convicted of a crime. How do you do it? The only way I can think of to do this easily (easily being the key word!) is a cryptocurrency transaction. Banks and credit card companies collude all the time in order to censor financi…

It's funny that the downvoters haven't really come up with a valid argument why Bitcoin is not a valid use case for this.

It's much more difficult to prove that person A transferred money to B via Bitcoin than it is via regular financial transactions due to Bitcoin's pseudonymity. Similar it's equally difficult to prevent this from happening.

Just that the you do not seem value in this (censorship-free transactions), does not make the argument invalid.

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