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Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

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Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#11
post #7
post #2

Why not just learn what there is to learn yourself. It's not exactly rocket science.

They may be too busy focusing on other areas of business. If so, then definitely bring in someone else. However, I'm curious about your "not rocket science" comment. I've always generally agreed with you, but I've been watching a lot of twist lately and Calacanis keeps saying stuff about SEO guys making crazy salaries ($100k - $200k/yr). If it's really that simple, how are some guys pulling that much $?

You can make 200k selling snake oil in many fields, including SEO. That doesn't imply SEO is hard. That said, SEO at strategic levels is nontrivial, like marketing, and is worth millions in direct sales to many firms.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#12
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't take the time to at least learn the basics and what people are going to do for the money you pay them, my guess is that you'll be an attractive target for more snake-oil salesmen. Once you've learned that, you could pretty much do things yourselves, handing off make-work things to contractors for significantly less money.

We have a pretty good idea on SEO. One of the businesses is a web marketing firm focused on Copy Writing (he's a copy writer). So, we do know the basics and can ferret out BS, but he/we believe good SEO takes time and effort. Neither of which he (or anyone else) has any interest in. Why spend weeks learning and then months implementing SEO, when you can pay someone to do it? His time is more valuable than the presume…

Another good reason to know some of the basic stuff is to make sure that someone does not happily blackhat you straight in to pagerank '0' territory.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#13
post #2

Why not just learn what there is to learn yourself. It's not exactly rocket science.

One of the first major lessons of being an entrepreneur for me was that even though I probably could do everything myself it was not economical and not feasible to actually do everything myself.

That probably was the first lesson, but I still spent another two decades before it fully sank in.

There are many things that, even though not rocket science, are quite specialist in nature and it takes time and experience to get to the level where you can do just as good a job as a specialist.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#14
I don't post much on here, so I'll just briefly say that I run a web marketing consultancy in Denver that has worked with several start-ups and e-commerce stores. Email in my profile if you want to talk further.

Since the discussion in this thread is turning toward whether SEO should be a "buy or build" decision, I'll throw my two-cents in there, as well.

If your website is a hobby or just a side-project, I think SEO is something you can pick up by reading some of the better guides out there (SEOMoz's "Basics" guide comes to mind). This will ensure that your site doesn't have things like Home or inaccessible navigation.

However, all of "what there is to learn yourself" is what our firm would take care of on day 1. The real SEO (the kind that commands 6-figure salaries or 5-figure monthly retainers) is much, much more in depth than the average internet user realizes. The reason you can't learn those strategies in a day is because most successful SEO practitioners keep them private, for obvious ($$) reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#16
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be too busy focusing on other areas of business. If so, then definitely bring in someone else. However, I'm curious about your "not rocket science" comment. I've always generally agreed with you, but I've been watching a lot of twist lately and Calacanis keeps saying stuff about SEO guys making crazy salaries ($100k - $200k/yr). If it's really that simple, how are some guys pulling that much $?

You can make 200k selling snake oil in many fields, including SEO. That doesn't imply SEO is hard. That said, SEO at strategic levels is nontrivial, like marketing, and is worth millions in direct sales to many firms.

SEO seems to attract a lot of snake oil people though. Maybe the recipe "not hard" + "lots of money" attracts a lot of people hoping to cash in.

I think at a minimum I'd only consider hiring someone with actual development skills.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#17
Takrupp - I recently started my own SEO/SEM firm and one of the reasons being I have seen lots of businesses get burned with high fees and promises from SEO guys.

Here is my companies site http://www.digitalbaltoro.com/ (site is a work in progress)

We are a small shop but we have great experience. Here is the link to my Linkedin profile to give you the overview http://www.linkedin.com/in/gforst as you will see lots of experience in e-commerce.

Give me a buzz if you are interested in chatting some more. 312-566-8944 ext 102

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#18
post #2

Why not just learn what there is to learn yourself. It's not exactly rocket science.

As with so many things, the devil is in the details. Here's a simple keyword example:

accounting services and accounting service are different, with substantial gaps in search volume and competitiveness. Do you know which one is worth more? Do you know how much more?

There's an order of magnitude difference between the traffic on nj accounting firms and new jersey account firms. Are you sure you know which is better?

Even if you cultivate a list of hundreds keywords that are relevant, valuable and that you can be competitive in, do you know how to decide which words to try to hit via SEO and which to do via SEM? Do you have a tool that can help you make that decision quickly?

Do you know who your competitors are, what keywords they're winning on, and how strong they are on each, so you can plan an effective attack, leaving them only with the crap you don't want?

Sure, it's pretty easy to say use valid html, use alt tags, use meaningful URLs, have a header, use relevant images, make videos, get links from relevant content with good anchor text, and all the other crap that goes into SEO 101. But when you get into market analysis, competitive analysis, management of link-building campaigns, etc, it gets very involved. I'd expect that it would take smart person a year of working full-time under an expert to be good at it.... and I'd expect it to take them much longer if they're doing a part-time self-guided tour.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone do SEO out there?

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a pretty good idea on SEO. One of the businesses is a web marketing firm focused on Copy Writing (he's a copy writer). So, we do know the basics and can ferret out BS, but he/we believe good SEO takes time and effort. Neither of which he (or anyone else) has any interest in. Why spend weeks learning and then months implementing SEO, when you can pay someone to do it? His time is more valuable than the presume…

Another good reason to know some of the basic stuff is to make sure that someone does not happily blackhat you straight in to pagerank '0' territory.

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