Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
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Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
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Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#2Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic.
> So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily)
Diversity of thought is a dangerous term in this current culture of witch hunts and personal destruction: https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/apple-diversity-head-denis...
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#3Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic. > So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily) Div…
I understand what it means to at least estimate representation based on gender, race, religion, nationality, veteran status, etc., and from that infer possible discrimination.
I can also understand the reasons for having civil rights laws to protect members of those groups, and I fully acknowledge the long history of discrimination in the US (I'm from the US) against Native Americans, blacks, women, non-heterosexuals, non-Protestants, and more.
But I can't wrap my head around what "diversity of thought" means, in any meaningful way.
Look at all the places with 'No-Assholes' hiring policy. Aren't "assholes" part of the diversity of thought?
I think it's pretty obvious that there may be good reasons to not hire people based on which thoughts they decide to express and how they express them. (I assume 'diversity of thought' refers to expressed thoughts - our mind reading devices aren't that good.)
The author doesn't address this topic, and instead proposes an evaluation based "entirely on performance in anonymous technical interviews."
How does that evaluation have anything to do with "diversity of thought"? If people from school X are 80% likely to pass the interview and people from elsewhere are 20% likely to pass the interview, then woudn't that process result in a monoculture of thought?
freedomben? Can you tell me how one might meaningfully characterize "diversity of thought"? For lack of a better definition, by "meaningful" I mean "incorporate it into hiring decisions such that the result is to the overall benefit of the company and the society which allows the company to exist".
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#4Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic. > So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily) Div…
I understand what it means to at least estimate representation based on gender, race, religion, nationality, veteran status, etc., and from that infer possible discrimination. I can also understand the reasons for having civil rights laws to protect members of those groups, and I fully acknowledge the long history of discrimination in the US (I'm from the US) against Native Americans, blacks, women, non-heterosexuals…
> But I can't wrap my head around what "diversity of thought" means, in any meaningful way.
For that to be true, you'd have to be unaware of the fact that people can process data and reason through complex problems differently.
> I assume 'diversity of thought' refers to expressed thoughts - our mind reading devices aren't that good.
That is a poor assumption that requires the redefinition of the word "thought". Our mind reading devices are pretty good: "Here is a complex problem that can be solved in more than one way - show your work."
> How does that evaluation have anything to do with "diversity of thought"?
By clearly demonstrating an applicant's competing priorities by way of solution selection? It sounds like you've never worked on a team that had that one guy who would regularly shoot down seemingly sensible textbook solutions, and instead offer a solution that either sounded like more work or just plain insanity. Have you never heard the story of Mel [0]? I can tell you from my own experience, as a former full stack developer who had to do a lot of interdepartmental work at a non-software company, diversity of thought is very useful.
[0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/net.jokes/k2JVKQzJSp...
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#5Well said. The fact is that forcing outcomes will never lead to fairness and will instead create misery for all involved.
The best plan is to make the process as fair as possible so that everyone has an opportunity if they want it, then let people do what they desire. It may not "look" like what some people want it to look like, but the whole point is that doesn't matter anyway.
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#6Well said. The fact is that forcing outcomes will never lead to fairness and will instead create misery for all involved. The best plan is to make the process as fair as possible so that everyone has an opportunity if they want it, then let people do what they desire. It may not "look" like what some people want it to look like, but the whole point is that doesn't matter anyway.
I disagree that this was well said. I think the underlying is point that blind tests of skill reduce bias and lead to increased diversity is a good one. As is the idea that we need to measure diversity on more than one axis. (My wife is not Caucasian but she looks Caucasian... The cultural and ethnic diversity she brings to her team is invisible to most people.)
What's missing in this is the acknowledgement that "diversity quotas" while, of course, imperfect and clumsy, reflect an effort to counterbalance institutional discrimination and measure our success. Of course arbitrary targets sometimes lead to suboptimal outcomes in specific cases. But, in aggregate, they are better than no measurement at all and I believe they do improve things.
There are many forms of institutional discrimination that alter the candidate pool before people even apply. Your blind process can be perfect but that's the last link in the chain. Quotas are a blunt tool to force us to compensate for unfairness that occurred before our process for which we are not responsible in order to build stronger teams.
As such I believe quotas are a good thing, because institutional bias and discrimination are bullshit and need to be eradicated. When they are, we can drop the quotas. If we come up with anything better than quotas, we can drop the quotas.
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#7Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic. > So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily) Div…
I understand what it means to at least estimate representation based on gender, race, religion, nationality, veteran status, etc., and from that infer possible discrimination. I can also understand the reasons for having civil rights laws to protect members of those groups, and I fully acknowledge the long history of discrimination in the US (I'm from the US) against Native Americans, blacks, women, non-heterosexuals…
"Diversity of thought" is a euphemism in the tradition of "teach the controversy". Reflect on that and you'll understand what it means and what is intended by people who advocate for it.
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#8Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic. > So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily) Div…
It seems like the stronger a proponent of progressive ideals you are, the more likely you are to be pilloried for some minor transgression.
(As an aside, this article linked from yours https://www.forbes.com/sites/ruchikatulshyan/2015/01/30/raci... states a correlation between racial, ethnic and gender diversity and company performance. I wonder to what degree this is infuenced by the fact that many high-performing companies are tech companies which now fervently pursue diversity as a goal in itself?)
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#9Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic. > So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily) Div…
I understand what it means to at least estimate representation based on gender, race, religion, nationality, veteran status, etc., and from that infer possible discrimination. I can also understand the reasons for having civil rights laws to protect members of those groups, and I fully acknowledge the long history of discrimination in the US (I'm from the US) against Native Americans, blacks, women, non-heterosexuals…
I still struggle to characterize "diversity of thought" in a way that is actionable by an institutional hiring process. I had a former colleague with whom I initially clashed. Only when realizing that he approached problems very differently than me (I could solve problems that he struggled with and he effortlessly solved problems that completely stomped me) did I realize that we needed to work together all the time.
The only time I screamed at my management was the day he was laid off. The organization never recovered.
When interviewing candidates, I am constantly afraid that I'm selecting for clones of myself.
Re: Diversity quotas suck. Here’s why
#10Not a new opinion, but well articulated and reasoned. Sadly, I don't think it will resonate because of the knee-jerk responses people seem to have these days regarding this topic. > So, what about diversity of thought? If you’re really going after candidates who can bring fresh perspectives to the table, their lived experience should trump their gender and ethnicity (though of course, those can correlate heavily) Div…
It seems like the stronger a proponent of progressive ideals you are, the more likely you are to be pilloried for some minor transgression. (As an aside, this article linked from yours https://www.forbes.com/sites/ruchikatulshyan/2015/01/30/raci... states a correlation between racial, ethnic and gender diversity and company performance. I wonder to what degree this is infuenced by the fact that many high-performing c…
Relating to your aside, correlation does not imply causation. Is it the diversity making those companies perform better, or better performance leading to the economic resources to pursue diversity programs?
Jonathon Haidt's research shows there are trade-offs between mono-cultures and diverse cultures. Neither is "better" than the other. Each have different traits. As a quick example, diverse groups (on average) are more creative at problem solving than mono-cultures, while mono-cultures (on average) have higher "Moral Cultural Capital" and are thus better at group allegiance and out competing other groups when the tasks are known.
An example from the real world might be that the United States has a more diverse culture and has a lot of creative output in its economy, while China or Japan are mono-cultures and have less creativity but are out competing others when the task undertaken is well known (ie not requiring creative problem solving).