Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities • Hacker News Board

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#101

Post by benbreen » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

InTheArena wrote: post #87

seibelj wrote: post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

I wise likewise told by my advisor that any sort of post-degree work in History would be futile. My chance of getting hired as "a white male" in a history department was not good, and frankly "there is not a lot of future in history" (which we laughed at).

Futile is much too strong of a word. I'm a white male, got a PhD in history, and ended up getting a good TT job in my first year on the market. Was I lucky? Undoubtedly. But some of the pessimism about history phds really is unwarranted in my view, for the reason the author mentions toward the end. I think the field has a strong future personally. It is just looking like the 80s through '00s was an enrollment high point. Doesn't mean there are no jobs left, or good work isn't being done.

On the other hand, I fully concede that, for my history and CS dual major students, I'd agree that it's be a bad idea to get a PhD in history if you have the skills and inclination to get a CS degree or a job at FB/Google/etc instead.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#102

Post by anoncoward111 » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

dralley wrote: post #97

anoncoward111 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rent and food in NYC are less than $14,000 with roommates. I have a savings if something goes wrong.

Take out taxes, transportation, entertainment, medical expenses, etc. Living off of savings for emergencies is inherently not sustainable. Setting aside retirement entirely.

Taxes on $18,000 is $800 in usa. Entertainment we just do for free through torrenting and walking.

Medical expenses, well, we live in the Usa. You just find a way to skate by until you don't. Obviously the political solution needs to be "Medicare for all", but I don't have the power to fight the multi billion dollar insurance lobby :)

Living off of savings is sustainable if you have $50,000 saved and only $1,000 a year in excess spending.

I currently make $50,000 a year. But, I usually get laid off, because I am precariously employed. So, after taxes, I usually only take home about $25,000 a year.

I would be much happier with a guaranteed $17,000 a year instead.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#103

Post by coldacid » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:21 AM UTC

InTheArena wrote: post #90

I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. Not because you may need to do a differential or integral, but rather because it teaches you to think differen…

There needs to be at least a solid understanding of the trivium along with ethics before anyone should be allowed to graduate with any degree (whether for arts, humanities, or STEM). And yes, I think that basic calculus might be a good thing to add to that as well.

The problem with a liberal education doesn't lie so much with the subjects of curriculum as much as how leaders in the humanities abuse their knowledge and positions for their own authoritarian leanings. This is what fuels the anti-intellectualism of today which has lead to the latest wave of populist authoritarianism. An educational system geared towards making money off of sheepskin instead of actually enlightening people doesn't help either.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#104

Post by coldacid » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:23 AM UTC

dqpb wrote: post #100

cs702 wrote: post #60

Indeed. Instead of seeking a broader understanding of the world and a greater ability to question and think critically about it, more students are seeking knowledge of a more practical nature that can lead to better employment opportunities in the near term. It's understandable. On the whole, I don't think this is good... but this has been coming for a long time, due to many reasons, including: * a broken funding sys…

> Instead of seeking a broader understanding of the world and a greater ability to question and think critically about it I would argue that education in Math, Physics, Science, Engineering, etc, give you this ability far better than humanities do.

I would argue that without both, one is crippled in their ability to do so. Both are needed, but most people are sadly lacking in one or the other.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#105

Post by withdavidli » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:23 AM UTC

This was one of the blogs that factored into deciding not to go grad school even though I ready took the GREs (psychology, would have been for I/O so more quant heavy than most in the field) : https://100rsns.blogspot.com/?m=1

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#106

Post by mathattack » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:27 AM UTC

I think humanities are a great combination degree but worthless on their own.

A finance major who knows history can anticipate how inevitable big market swings are.

Philosophy pairs great with computer science.

A mathematician or physicist that speaks French or Russian has access to much more information.

And for what it’s worth, the breakout high school classmate of mine was an English major. And Economics.

I would never suggest someone get a PhD in it though. There are better ways to enjoy and share the humanities.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#107

Post by wonderbear » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:28 AM UTC

nugget wrote: post #28

jessaustin wrote: post #24

Maybe this is more an indictment of universities than of the humanities? Is it possible that university study in general is on borrowed time, and the future is simply here earlier for the humanities? It's not as though the Classics will be forgotten, nor will writers, artists, connoisseurs, or critics disappear. Professors haven't ever been [EDIT:] a vital part of this.

As we transition from a pedigree-based to a skills-based economy, it would make sense that the humanities would be an earlier casualty than many other fields.

I would argue we're just as pedigree based as ever. Just look at any list of the wealthiest (whatever demographic) people in the US. Inheritance and connections dominate it.

It's the wage-earners competing in a pseudo-meritocracy, just like fifty or a hundred years ago. The difference now is that our skilled trades require more formal education.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#108

Post by AdamM12 » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:32 AM UTC

InTheArena wrote: post #90

I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. Not because you may need to do a differential or integral, but rather because it teaches you to think differen…

I'd say the anti-intellectual authoritarianism has emanated from campuses. That being said when I first went to college I also held the view that mandating some level of humanities was important to be "well-rounded", and on some level still think this is true, but I've since soured on the people who say we need more B-school & Engineering schools students taking these classes to promote so called "critical thinking" as I've felt that "skill" is more a personal mentality than any thing taught in a class. That and I think it is rent seeking by the schools who have less economic resources. Also part of my souring is, which I think you are alluding to, that it seems to be more about indoctrination than anything else.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#109

Post by scythe » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:32 AM UTC

InTheArena wrote: post #90

I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. Not because you may need to do a differential or integral, but rather because it teaches you to think differen…

>I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus.

I agree that mathematics is underappreciated by most people who work in the humanities. But I strongly disagree that they should learn calculus.

In fact, I would argue that calculus is the problem with the perception of math in the social sciences. There are plenty of types of math that could potentially be applied in sociology and its variants, particularly mathematical logic and graph theory. Statistics needs no introduction. Calculus by contrast deals with continuous changes in well-defined quantities, which are not like anything a sociologist encounters.

I suspect that the reason that many sociologists believe that most of mathematics is basically an extended version of calculus -- as seen in this essay:

https://www.edge.org/conversation/rory_sutherland-this-thing...

-- is because a social scientist's primary interaction from math is by way of economics, who do use calculus to track nearly-continuous changes in well-defined quantities.

However, economics is unique among the social sciences in that the phenomena it seeks to describe can be readily quantified. This leads to the mistaken belief, evident in the article, that mathematics is only able to contribute to the study of things which are easily quantifiable, which is not true at all!

Students in sociology should really be taught statistics and discrete math, with special attention to any techniques that may be useful in describing human behavior.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#110

Post by maire » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #60

Indeed. Instead of seeking a broader understanding of the world and a greater ability to question and think critically about it, more students are seeking knowledge of a more practical nature that can lead to better employment opportunities in the near term. It's understandable. On the whole, I don't think this is good... but this has been coming for a long time, due to many reasons, including: * a broken funding sys…

This is too bad. There used to be a much greater cross pollination between the sciences and humanities. One of the most interesting discussion about the 1st (not 2nd) law of thermodynamics came from one of my philosophy classes.