Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities • Hacker News Board

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#71

Post by dwaltrip » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 11:56 PM UTC

donbright wrote: post #57

You know what's funny is how many topics on 'hacker news' are basically questions of sociology or anthropology or economics or psychology. If you could make some kind of AI that would color the comments here based on what academic discipline they were most closely linked to, I think it would just be a sea of colors that fall under the 'humanities' or 'liberal arts' umbrella. It's not that people aren't deeply interes…

Those topics are intrinsically harder and more intractable. They deal with far more complex and chaotic systems. This is the fundamental issue.

Looking at it this way, it isn't surprising that humanity has a much less productive grasp of such subjects. The topics are of great interest, but it is difficult to make substantial, concrete progress.

This doesn't mean we should give up. It just means we should expect to struggle greatly as we seek to move forward in these areas.

Another important lesson is the value of the indirect approach. Progress and changes from other domains can have a massive impact in the long run, sometimes even dwarfing the majority of efforts from those who are working directly on the thing. I think we need to study these dynamics more.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 11:59 PM UTC

orhmeh09 wrote: post #56

Moodles wrote: post #50

80% of humanities papers are never cited once. 80%. That. is. appalling. http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2014/04/23/aca... Social "science" is even more terrifying in my view. 25% of social sciencist identity as Marxist. https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.ht... I don't know how anyone can see these statistics and not think that there is a crisis. I nearly took history at undergrad…

Your link on Marxism does not say social scientists are 25% Marxist. Even if they were, what’s the problem?

You're right, it doesn't say that. But it says that sociology has 25.5%.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#73

Post by dorchadas » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 11:59 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #60

Indeed. Instead of seeking a broader understanding of the world and a greater ability to question and think critically about it, more students are seeking knowledge of a more practical nature that can lead to better employment opportunities in the near term. It's understandable. On the whole, I don't think this is good... but this has been coming for a long time, due to many reasons, including: * a broken funding sys…

> It's understandable.

And, in my opinion, it's a shame it's happening at universities and not being built up in trade schools for various subjects. Likewise, though, I do agree that it's not a good thing.

> [a]

It is interesting to see the divide. It really does go both ways between the two, though I think the issue lies more on the focus on focused-specialization over a well-roundedness. Obviously, you're going to have to be specialized for your job, but there's still room for a well-rounded individual. I think part of the problem goes back to secondary schools, and how many just push through them instead of actually learning to become well-rounded and find other things interesting.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#74

Post by mehrdadn » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:00 AM UTC

lloydde wrote: post #63

yedava wrote: post #15

In countries like India you would be laughed at if you aren't rich and take an arts degree. It is because in a country with limited earning opportunities, it doesn't make any sense to invest in a degree that has virtually non-existent employment opportunities. Seems like the majority of US population has now become poor enough that taking getting a humanities degree is risky.

> In countries like India ... I thought India was pretty unique for its culture that values so highly engineering and as a result has the highest rates of engineering graduates. When you say other countries like India, which countries are you thinking of and what about them brings them to mind?

> I thought India [...] has the highest rates of engineering graduates.

Where did you see this? Weirdly enough it doesn't even seem to make the top 10 in the stats I can find, though they say "engineering/manufacturing/construction", and I'm not really sure we should be separating them for the purposes of the current discussion. (Though this is a bit weird considering how big India and China are? Not sure what's going on.)

[Edit: Seems they're not part of the World Economic Forum, and hence they lack data on India and China.]

But to address the question of what other such countries might be: the top 3 seem to be Russia, USA, Iran: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-...

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#75

Post by lovich » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:03 AM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #49

lovich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have been my school but I found the degree poorly taught. You could get a fairly easy B+/A- by just parroting the teachers opinion on the topic at hand. STEM classes had some teachers like that, but most of the work there had objectively wrong and right answers. My friends from other schools all had the same experience for the most part with only a handful of exceptions for particularly good teachers, who al…

> The humanities to me seem like they are of lower quality because professors have no incentive or desire to actually teach Why do you think faculty’s lack of desire to teach is something limited to the humanities? In STEM fields too you will commonly see faculty delegating their workload to teaching assistants so that they can focus on things that interest them more.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I think the lack of desire to teach is a country wide problem for universities in the US. I think it's more apparent in the humanities because a teacher can define their opinion as "right" and put very little effort into educating students on the topic since they can just grade less harshly if they need to keep a certain pass rate on their students. On the other hand there is a much larger proportion of STEM work that is right or wrong and a teacher can't just pass students without it becoming obvious to the department that the students coming out of Professor N's classes have no grasp on the topic, and so they are forced to teach more skills that are useable in any class or jobs that touch on that subject

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#76

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:04 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #64

seibelj wrote: post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

> law school Technically still part of the humanities :) I majored in math and history and my history adviser made it very clear to us how brutal the job market for history phd's was, although he did that in the context of how great the people they were hiring were (compared to the old guard). Basically there were so few tenure track positions open in the whole country that every open position would get world class a…

> > law school

> Technically still part of the humanities :)

Law is usually considered part of the social sciences rather than the humanities (outside of the law schools that offer BSL as well as JD degrees, undergraduate study of law is often within political science departments.)

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#77

Post by wnissen » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:07 AM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #44

matthewmacleod wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably just a less obviously-hostile environment would be a good start.

What exactly is obviously hostile about our universities? Is it the safe spaces? Is it the lower standards applied to minorities and women to make it easier to get in? Is it all of the scholarships open only to minorities and women? Universities are quite obviously the most inclusive and least hostile place in the world for minorities and women.

The percentage of all PhDs earned by women has just, in the last ten years, hit 50%. Of the STEM fields only biology has over 50%, and engineering, physics, and math are in the 20s. A lot of strides have been made, but "most inclusive and least hostile" is not born out by the data.

https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-p...

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#78

Post by groby_b » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:11 AM UTC

yedava wrote: post #15

In countries like India you would be laughed at if you aren't rich and take an arts degree. It is because in a country with limited earning opportunities, it doesn't make any sense to invest in a degree that has virtually non-existent employment opportunities. Seems like the majority of US population has now become poor enough that taking getting a humanities degree is risky.

Given that an arts degree in the US easily costs a quarter million (at least at a decent art school) these days, I think "poor" isn't the word I'd use for people who don't take it.

Just "not willing to be in debt for the rest of their lives".

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#79

Post by darpa_escapee » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #37

darpa_escapee wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to be human and get sick on $18k a year.

One good thing about university employment is that the health benefits are usually very good, even if the salary isn't.

The new trend in university employment is hiring adjuncts at <$20k/yr without benefits.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#80

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 12:16 AM UTC

darpa_escapee wrote: post #36

seibelj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to live and work around Boston on $18,000 salary

Hard to be human and get sick on $18k a year.

Don't bin us all in together. Most of the modern world it's really not that expensive to go get real sick.