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Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

theguardian.com

291–300 of 478 posts

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#291
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were saying each is tolerant of loss.

I don't know what that means.

The original statement was playing off of "lossy compression" as in computer science. The concrete meaning here is that Chinese and English both have enough redundancy to convey meaning even if some information is lost. So, in a noisy room you could still understand someone, for example.

I don't agree or disagree with that statement, because I speak 1.5 languages and the other is closely related to English. It's an interesting thought though.

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Don't ending sentences in prepositions >- Don't split infinitives >- Don't use double negative These seem to really be some rules that ain't nobody got time for!

Because they were never really rules at all in English, until those grammarians decided to try to make the language conform to Latin's rules.

I think the comment above was in jest. It's actually a pretty good little joke.

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#293
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is the language of great literature The overall sentiment of your comment is good but I took issue with this particular statement. English is _a_ language of great literature. There's great literature written in basically all languages, you're just less likely to know unless you speak them.

I agree of course that there are many languages in which great literature is produced. I just happen to find that books, be it fiction or non-fiction, written by English or American authors, have a very refined way of pleasing the reader.

[deleted]

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#294
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is the language of great literature The overall sentiment of your comment is good but I took issue with this particular statement. English is _a_ language of great literature. There's great literature written in basically all languages, you're just less likely to know unless you speak them.

I agree of course that there are many languages in which great literature is produced. I just happen to find that books, be it fiction or non-fiction, written by English or American authors, have a very refined way of pleasing the reader.

  ... written by English or American authors, have 
  a very refined way of pleasing the reader.
Perhaps you could elaborate on that by contrasting how other languages say German authors writing in German approach the reader. Are they more curt or write in a matter-of-fact manner?

How about other non-English language authors?

Please expand if you've had the good fortune of reading fiction / non-fiction in various languages.

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#295
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were saying each is tolerant of loss.

I don't know what that means.

In my experience (English natively, Chinese, Japanese & Spanish conversationally, and an interest in the subject with knowledge of about a diversity of other languages), English and Chinese can tolerate a lot of "error" and still maintain strong communication. You can mix up the order of words, you can use the "wrong" vowel for a given word, and there are a lot of different words that mean similar things, but are close enough. All of these aspects make the language understandable, even when the language skills of the speaker or listener are poor. Many different dialects of Chinese use tones very differently, have slightly different word meanings, and have different word orders - and communication in the language persists fairly well even when one speaker has a very different syntax, emphasis, and even vocabulary.

This idea is not really true for languages like Japanese, where mixing up a vowel can render the entire sentence confusing to a listener. And word order is fairly strict (if still expressively diverse). You can't just smash together some ideas and expect someone to really understand you. Similar is true for other more strict romantic languages (Latin is like that as well).

And so both English and Chinese seem to make be amenable to trying out and playing with not just new vocabulary, but new syntax, grammars, and phenomes.

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#296
post #116
post #99

I love the English language. It is expressive, it is the language of great literature, and it is in no way „bullying“, no, it brings people all over the world together. There would be no way to talk to a Chinese for me (German) if he had only learned Japanese because Japan is the neighbour and if I had only learned French or Polish because those are our big neighbours. No, English brings us all together, it makes me…

It’s also the lingua franca of tech. There isn’t any way to say “Linux Kernel Networking Subsystem” or “8-Way associative cache” in French or any other language without severe lingual contortions.

"Sous-système du noyau Linux" "Cache associative à 8 directions"

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#297

In many European countries, you cannot get a good job (like one with an international company) unless you can communicate in English at CEFRL B1 proficiency [1]. China may very well become the largest economy in the world, and there is no way that Chinese, as a multi-toned, symbolic language, will ever become the Lingua franca, as it is near impossible for most adults to learn, in contrast to English [2]. It can be a…

> China may very well become the largest economy in the world, and there is no way that Chinese, as a multi-toned, symbolic language, will ever become the Lingua franca, as it is near impossible for most adults to learn, in contrast to English Ok for multi-tonal, but what is "symbolic" about Chinese? On the other hand, I have known lots of Spanish and Chinese people who are utterly incapable of saying just a single E…

>Ok for multi-tonal, but what is "symbolic" about Chinese?

I think they are referring to the Chinese writing system being very loosely coupled to the pronunciation (in contrast to languages like Spanish or Korean).

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#298

One complaint about English is that double negatives are not grammatically correct. The word "not" is so important it should be re-enforced in someway. Spanish supports double negatives. The French add redundancy with "ne" and "pas". It's worth noting that American gangsters often talk with double negatives and the U.S. military use the phrase "repeat NOT" since their discussions are often mission critical. But I am…

My complaint with English is how there is often no difference between a noun and a verb. Sometimes several words that could be either are stacked and it really trips up my parser. It's also common to see badly translated software where what should have been a verb is translated as a noun, or vice versa.

Re: Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet

#299
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a native (British) English speaker, and I actually can find it quite hard to communicate with non-native speakers, because they don't understand my accent. It's not particularly strong as British accents go (nothing like Glaswegian or Geordie for example), but it really caused problems when I moved to a research group which was made up of primarily English-as-a-second-language speakers. The other thing I found wa…

I don't think there is such thing as Euro-English, but a French-English, Spanish-English, Dutch-English, because every non-native speaker will make grammar/vocab/pronunciation mistakes depending on his/her primary language.

But the brilliant thing of the English is she has excellent at withstand error. Close enough is often good enough.
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