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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#321

Post by woah »

metanoia wrote: post #231
dm319 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not A sense of civic duty? These words sounds like they are from another period. I think this is low in the mindshare of the population of many western countries. As a society we're mostly concerned with personal progress, social influence and monetisation.

And this is the essential problem with society today - the lack of acknowledgement that there is such a thing as civic duty, or the greater good. It's all about personal advancement regardless of the externalized costs. In the words of Toby Keith - It's all about me, it's all about I, it's all about #1...

Also, the kids these days wear funny clothes, their music is too loud, and they have no manners. We’re really going to hell in a handbasket. Also the JavaScript frameworks have too many plugins.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#322

Post by mmirate »

egypturnash wrote: post #161
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Did you RTFA before you jumped into the comments? Here, let me give you a quote. > Just this week, a woman stopped by our desk because she needed to be taught how to open a new tab in an internet browser. She returned a few minutes later and said, “Please write ‘stomach ache’ on this piece of paper for me. I don’t know to spell it.” The man waiting behind her had no idea how to open an internet browser to begin his f…

I have zero sympathy for either of those people.

And I'm disappointed that our taxes are going towards fruitlessly prodding-at their poor excuses of lives, in the sheerest pretense that anything more can be made of them.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#323

Post by mmirate »

pandler wrote: post #215
egypturnash wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you RTFA before you jumped into the comments? Here, let me give you a quote. > Just this week, a woman stopped by our desk because she needed to be taught how to open a new tab in an internet browser. She returned a few minutes later and said, “Please write ‘stomach ache’ on this piece of paper for me. I don’t know to spell it.” The man waiting behind her had no idea how to open an internet browser to begin his f…

> Information is available “almost literally for free and instantly” to people who can afford a device that connects to the internet. ... and who have a sufficient working knowledge of how computers and the internet work in order to take advantage of that information. In line with what you and others have said, what I've observed at the libraries I've been to is that the people who get the most value out of libraries…

As long as the police still do their jobs, why does the existence of such an underclass worry you?

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#324

Post by yontherubicon »

UncleEntity wrote: post #315
yontherubicon wrote: post #293

I must say I'm rather dissappointed in the writing quality of someone who purports to be an MFA candidate in Creative NonFiction. Though this may be more the fault of the blogstyle medium than antyhing else. It is still better than the middle-school level writing of the editorial the author is responding to. As for the points made therein, I'm a bit disgusted. The library was conceived as a place for anyone to go to…

> Furthermore, Miss Oliver's argument, that we should keep the libraries for the homeless and the addicts jettisons the role of the library as a community center. A lot of homeless people are just having a bit of bad luck and a few steps in the right direction will have them be non-homeless people is short order. If you live paycheck to paycheck and then don't have a paycheck anymore then things go bad real quick. >…

> A lot of homeless people are just having a bit of bad luck and a few steps in the right direction will have them be non-homeless people is short order. If you live paycheck to paycheck and then don't have a paycheck anymore then things go bad real quick.

I absolutely sympathize, and I think that safety nets are important insofar as we as a society can guarantee them. However, the library is not the place for that. If someone is homeless and wishes to spend their time reading, then so be it. However, most people are homeless due to mental illness, not lack of jobs. And drug addicts have non-negligible increased rates of criminality and impulsive or violent behavior.

Libraries, as halls of learning, and thus for a people centered around learning, a community center, must be safe.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#325

Post by uremog »

stcredzero wrote: post #166
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

Can you imagine Netflix or Amazon, Google or Facebook behaving this way? This is the difference between having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not. The customer/business relationship is a poor substitute for the real thing, even when they try to foster the trappings of false "community." there was a time when people considered the idea of an institution having a long and complete list of everything you've rea…

Library: A library is an asset to a community.

Company: A community is an asset to a company.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#326

Post by sonnyblarney »

eucitizenxxy wrote: post #302
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community died some time in the 1980s with the rise of "loads of money", and famous politicians stating "there's no such thing as society any more". It used to be that people would make a living then give something back in later life - either public service such as becoming a politician or joining one of the many societies like the Rotary Club that performs philanthropic acts. Now politics is a career, philanthropy i…

People get shadowbanned on HN for using the the term that describes this phenomenon: neoliberalism. It’s exactly that: eroding of civil society while pushing the ideology that you can (and should) monetize everything. A sad development might I say.

That's not really neoliberalism, moreover, nobody is getting banned for that word.

Neoliberalism is more of an academic, economic concept, it's not inherently anti-community, it just happens to be.

McDonald's and Starbucks don't want to wipe out civic cohesiveness etc., but it just might happen in some situations wherein everyone ends up working for 'large corps' instead of local businesses etc..

The opposite political ideology is called 'Communitarianism'. It does not have a current identifiable place in America politics.

The Christian Democrats (i.e. Angela Merkel in Germany) are of this philosophy, it's more of a culturally conservative kind of socialism, it puts families, communities, people and the wellbeing of said groups at the centre of political and economic objectives. It's done in a localist manner (in the same way the Catholic Church has given great local leeway to parishes etc.), i.e. local context matters more than top-down authorities etc..

Whether you buy into it or not, I suggest it's really sad that it's missing from the American dialogue because a lot of that is just what we need right now.

Inherently localist ideals have a hard fight against more globalist ones (neoliberalism, state socialism) for obvious reasons ... if there were more established Communitarian ideals, I'll bet Donald Trump would not be president right now.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#327

Post by Spivak »

moate wrote: post #301
Spivak wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say using Venmo is different but the idea that a social network could be built around a p2p payment service works surprisingly better than it has any right to. https://soundcloud.com/replyall/4-follow-the-money

It's the idea that P2P payments are PUBLIC BY DEFAULT on "social media" platform and what that says about people's idea of what privacy is.

I don't disagree but at the same time it's one setting away to make them all private forever. It could be much worse.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#328

Post by rnd0 »

woah wrote: post #321
metanoia wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the essential problem with society today - the lack of acknowledgement that there is such a thing as civic duty, or the greater good. It's all about personal advancement regardless of the externalized costs. In the words of Toby Keith - It's all about me, it's all about I, it's all about #1...

Also, the kids these days wear funny clothes, their music is too loud, and they have no manners. We’re really going to hell in a handbasket. Also the JavaScript frameworks have too many plugins.

Kids today?

"“I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. " Margaret Thatcher, 1987

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#329

Post by SamReidHughes »

_xzxj wrote: post #316
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

> Can you imagine Netflix or Amazon, Google or Facebook behaving this way? Could be that I'm from an older generation, but there was a time when people considered the idea of an institution having a long and complete list of everything you've read more than creepy, it was terrifying. Wasn't that more or less part of the plot of either SE7EN or Along Came a Spider (or maybe some other late-90s procedural thriller)? tl…

It was Se7en and I guess also Conspiracy Theory.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#330

Post by danso »

mmirate wrote: post #323
pandler wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Information is available “almost literally for free and instantly” to people who can afford a device that connects to the internet. ... and who have a sufficient working knowledge of how computers and the internet work in order to take advantage of that information. In line with what you and others have said, what I've observed at the libraries I've been to is that the people who get the most value out of libraries…

As long as the police still do their jobs, why does the existence of such an underclass worry you?

I can't think of any U.S. law enforcement agencies that have ever asserted (either as a primary or secondary mission) to take care of or otherwise manage the impoverished underclass. Can you cite any examples that you know of?
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