The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future • Hacker News Board

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#121

Post by pg » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 5:27 AM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #115

jbrennan wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've been wondering is why Apple doesn't pony up and do just that. They could say "Hey artists not [yet] on a label, join the iTunes Label. We're a great distribution channel, and we'll give you a 70/30 split." OK so it's a bit far-fetched, and it really depends on what iTunes-as-a-label would provide (but with GarageBand/Logic/CuBase who needs tons of financing?). Really the only thing iTunes doesn't have a gre…

IIRC, Apple is not allowed to start a record label due to one of the settlements they made with Apple Records.

Who would have ever guessed at the time that would matter?

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#122

Post by ugh » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 5:39 AM UTC

icefox wrote: post #102

ugh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the alternatives, though? I quite like the three column browser for quickly finding music even if I only have a very fuzzy idea of what I would like right now. It scales quite well, even if you have a library with several thousand songs and a few hundred artists. Together with the hybrid cover view it doesn’t even look very much like a spreadsheet. Then there’s the grid view which also has its uses. I especi…

Amarok has some interesting UI features that are really interesting.

Like what? This is a honest question. I don't know much about Amarok but whenever I tried it, it looked completely unimpressive and like an even bigger UI clusterfuck than iTunes to me.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#123

Post by ptomato » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 5:49 AM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #81

Somewhat related, what's the status nowadays of un-DRM'ing music you've purchased, say from iTunes Store, to play on other players, particularly on Linux? Is it possible? What if you don't have access to Windows or OSX (to burn an non-DRM cd)? Legal?

iTunes Store music isn't DRMed, at all. Neither is music from the Amazon music store.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#124

Post by tjmc » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 5:50 AM UTC

physcab wrote: post #109

pg wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds naive. The people running the labels are very cynical, and the way they're compensated makes them even more so. They don't have equity. They're motivated by bonuses that come out of this year's revenue. So they're not interested in building stuff. They just want to extract large amounts of money, this year, from whoever they can.

Yes, perhaps thinking the labels changing their ways (or hoping they do) over time is naive. I'll admit that (but I'd like to say optimistic instead). What the music industry needs is a platform where unsigned artists can go to promote their music without the help of the labels. This platform could probably act like a label, but better serve the artists and users. It would have to garner a lot of eyeballs so it could…

The idea of simply creating a different distribution mechanism (eg CDBaby) for unsigned artists so that they don't have to sign with a major label is popular with the tech crowd, but fundamentally flawed. It assumes that unsigned artists can all produce well recorded, popular music on their own.

Most can't.

A good producer can pick a rough artist or band and get something popular out of them, but it often involves both mentoring and investment in recording and promotion upfront before any opportunity of return. Note I deliberately use the word "popular" rather than "good" (which is subjective anyway) because clearly as a business "popular" is where the money is. The "long tail" theory is fiction. Music is a hits business where most of the money is made by a relatively short fat body of popular music.

Many of the most popular "artists" are created from scratch by producers. Where do you think Britney and the Spice Girls came from? Like them or not, the revenue from hit music funds the production of new acts who haven't become profitable yet.

Another flawed assumption is that everyone wants to listen to new music. A lot don't. So you have a large body of recorded music that the record labels will never give up or let you sample or remix without a hefty toll. And as soon as any new act gets popular, you can bet they'll be offered a seat at the "big 4" music table. It's the DeBeers business model applied to music.

Personally, I think what the radio station JJJ in Australia does with their unearthed site (http://triplejunearthed.com/) is an excellent model for identifying quality artists. The next step IMHO is a ycombinator style production startup company that invests in developing the most promising acts to become popular and then offers all the recording, promotion, management and touring services that the labels do but on just terms. Distribution is just the last piece of the puzzle.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#125

Post by pontifier » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 5:50 AM UTC

God... This whole debacle is a true indicator that the patent office should just grant my patent already. I have a non-obvious solution that has solid legal grounding.

If anyone is interested I am going to be handing out a bunch of trial membership codes to interested parties in a few days...

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#126

Post by bad_user » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 5:51 AM UTC

thought_alarm wrote: post #29

digitallogic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then allow me to make your day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_iPod_managers

Yes, trying out other music managers is a very good way to come to appreciate iTunes and how it works. I encourage everyone who thinks they're unhappy with iTunes to check out these other applications.

Yes, but why can't I just drag and drop mp3 files on my iPod/iPhone directly from the file manager?

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#127

Post by pontifier » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 6:03 AM UTC

oo7jeep wrote: post #66

So what will music look like in 5 - 10 years? Still just iTunes and streaming? Lets not forget labels aren't sustainable businesses in their current form.

I can show you what I think it will be like. I have developed a media distribution system that is unlike anything that I have seen before. I will be opening it up to a limited number of people soon, and when I do, I can give you a code that will let you create an account.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#128

Post by loanshark » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 6:43 AM UTC

throwawaymuso wrote: post #106

This is a throw away account, I would prefer to remain anonymous. I work for a digital music startup and am privy to the kinds of tactics and ridiculousness that the major labels engage in on a regular basis. I should note however that I am a developer, not one of the guys that do the deal cutting as primary focus. For example; they're well aware DRM does not work, but their insistence on the implementation of DRM is…

Why, hello there Grooveshark.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#129

Post by dagw » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 6:51 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #97

dagw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was my music to begin with I hopefully have it backed up somewhere, so no harm done. I'll just go back to doing whatever I did before.

As would I, but doesn't that eliminate a lot of the convenience of leaving it up to Google, the cloud, etc? At that point, why not just set your music up on a RAID, and stream it from home?

Pain to set up. Not all ISPs let you run a server. Having to have a server up and running 24/7. Google probably has better infrastructure and more reliable network connections than I do. Google has someone on call 24/7 to fix problems. Basically all the standard arguments as to why you let anybody host anything rather than doing it yourself.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#130

Post by bambax » Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 6:53 AM UTC

ethank wrote: post #25

bambax wrote: post #24

Isn't this just wishful thinking? Everybody hates labels, and so wishes them dead (and for the record, so do I). But just because everyone wants them to die doesn't mean they will die. Labels sit on content, and their monopoly is protected by the full force of the law. The number of startups in the field or the evilness of label people does seem a little bit irrelevant. There is only one way labels can die: if they c…

A question, honestly: have you ever visited or spoken to anyone at a label?

I have never visited, no. I know people from school who work at labels, but I can't say I meet with them often.

Why the question?

EDIT: oh, I understand the question, you work at a label.

Well, I live in France, where "Hadopi" just went live. It's a government agency that monitors Internet traffic for copyright infringement and that can then cut off the Internet access of alleged offenders -- not because they themselves are convicted of copyright infringement, but because their Internet connection was used in this manner and they failed to prevent it.

This law was inspired by and received the heavy support of professional organisations such as SACEM, etc.

When an industry is instrumental in creating such legal monsters, I think it deserves the hate and contempt of the public, and more.

Now, none of this has much to do with the subject of the article which was about the "digital future" of the industry. I just wanted to elaborate a little on the "hate" part of my initial post.