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MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

money.cnn.com

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Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#121

Post by scarface74 »

listenallyall wrote: post #92

If MoviePass fails, it's a failure of the Nash equilibrium due to stubbornness and lack of communication. MoviePass drives traffic to movies, benefiting both studios and theaters. Despite the existence of other subscription plans, if MP goes away, the majority of those tickets will never be purchased. MP could certainly have evolved into a sustainable plan, that restricted its users to seeing movies at off-times with…

AMC's subscription plan is especially attractive to high-volume users on which it will likely lose money, further, it encourages them to use their free tickets at peak times for the most popular movies in the most expensive formats. When an AMC subscriber in NYC reserves a seat for a Marvel film in IMAX on opening weekend, that's a $20+ ticket that AMC can't sell to a paying customer because the theater is sold out.

- AMC made a deal with the studios. All movies are accounted for as being purchased for $8.99. AMC then pays the studio 40-60% of that price.

- Thd turnover of AMC movies isn’t that great. I doubt they have more than 8 new movies in a month - even fewer that a person wants to see

- Concessions are a high profit margin product. The average movie goer was already paying around $5.00 in concessions. They will probably pay more now since the movie was “free”.

- the subscription plan is not available for anyone under 18. If you take your kids they pay full price for the movie and concessions.

I can’t find the article now where I saw this. But the $8.9@ per movie price was widely reported.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#122

Post by polskibus »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #116
scarface74 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then AMC turned around and did thier own subscription service. Yes it cost more, but it’s sustainable, you don’t have to jump through hoops to use it and I’m really enjoying it.

In the end consumers got a subscription service from a major theatre for a lot less than buying individual tickets, something I doubt would have happened if it weren't for Moviepass. Competition is good for consumers.

Isn't it dumping though? That's very bad for competition in the long run, lack of which is bad for consumers.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#123

Post by dwighttk »

scarface74 wrote: post #113
Jasper_ wrote: post #40

First, they tried to strongarm AMC into getting a portion of ticket and concession sales [0]. When AMC said "lol no", MoviePass blocked AMC and tried to pass it off as AMC blocking MoviePass. They then lied about how much money they made AMC [1]. [0] https://deadline.com/2018/01/moviepass-lack-of-amc-theatres-... [1] https://variety.com/2018/film/news/amc-blasts-moviepass-fals...

And then AMC turned around and did thier own subscription service. Yes it cost more, but it’s sustainable, you don’t have to jump through hoops to use it and I’m really enjoying it.

>it’s sustainable

Is it? 3 movies/week for $20/month is about $1.67/ movie.

I think it is just around until movie pass kicks the bucket (at least at that price)

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#124

Post by scarface74 »

dwighttk wrote: post #123
scarface74 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then AMC turned around and did thier own subscription service. Yes it cost more, but it’s sustainable, you don’t have to jump through hoops to use it and I’m really enjoying it.

>it’s sustainable Is it? 3 movies/week for $20/month is about $1.67/ movie. I think it is just around until movie pass kicks the bucket (at least at that price)

AMC doesn’t show 12 different movies in a month. At most, they probably have a turnover of 5-6 movies per month.

As I said earlier, the price they pay for the studio for each movie a subscriber sees is around $4-$6. They still make a lot of money on high priced concessions.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#125

Post by listenallyall »

chrisseaton wrote: post #94
listenallyall wrote: post #92

If MoviePass fails, it's a failure of the Nash equilibrium due to stubbornness and lack of communication. MoviePass drives traffic to movies, benefiting both studios and theaters. Despite the existence of other subscription plans, if MP goes away, the majority of those tickets will never be purchased. MP could certainly have evolved into a sustainable plan, that restricted its users to seeing movies at off-times with…

> MoviePass drives traffic to movies Does it? Were those people going anyway? Would they go if they had to pay one cent more? They’re just a middleman aren’t they? How are they driving anything or adding any value? > that's a $20+ ticket that AMC can't sell to a paying customer But the subscribers are paying customers aren’t they? Do you mean they can’t sell it to another paying customer? So you’re just saying they c…

I'm saying that for $20 per month, an AMC A-Lister can easily use $40, $50, $60+ of premium tickets at full opportunity cost. The terms of the A-List program encourage users to reserve the company's most valuable inventory. It would be like an all-you-can fly program... if users were restricted to economy seats on low-volume flights, it might be profitable for the airline. But AMC is encouraging its customers to reserve first-class seats on the busiest routes at the busiest times, displacing other customers who would pay cash for those premium seats.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#126

Post by stevewillows »

wildpeaks wrote: post #86
legitster wrote: post #20

If I am a traditional 'tech' company - I can afford to lose money when I am investing it in my platform or technology. It's like borrowing money to invest in your assets. For MoviePass, they are losing money and passing it off to theaters - it's like borrowing money to buy more ingredients for a failing restaurant. You can't charge less than the marginal cost, it doesn't make sense! I am trying to wrap my head around…

The Nerdwriter has a good video (short, just 6 minutes) about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w876zZZIb10 The gist of it is, they're hoping to grow so big that movie theaters will have no choice but to negotiate with them, to share part of the revenues they bring theaters from people who normally don't come watch movies on a whim anymore.

This is sort of like Amazon's tactic with ebooks and such. Lose until your volume is high, then when you've cornered that particular market, negotiate a workable cost per unit.

I really hope it works out -- but in all sincerity, I don't see why the theaters themselves aren't just copying this for their chains. MoviePass has already demonstrated the market.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#127

Post by bduerst »

listenallyall wrote: post #92

If MoviePass fails, it's a failure of the Nash equilibrium due to stubbornness and lack of communication. MoviePass drives traffic to movies, benefiting both studios and theaters. Despite the existence of other subscription plans, if MP goes away, the majority of those tickets will never be purchased. MP could certainly have evolved into a sustainable plan, that restricted its users to seeing movies at off-times with…

Except Moviepass is skating by on VC money with only vaporware monetization through data mining, and AMC can afford to wait them out.

Nash equilibrium here is Moviepass dying off regardless of communication/collaboration. Introducing a competing service will only speed that up.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#128

Post by anamexis »

stevewillows wrote: post #126
wildpeaks wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nerdwriter has a good video (short, just 6 minutes) about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w876zZZIb10 The gist of it is, they're hoping to grow so big that movie theaters will have no choice but to negotiate with them, to share part of the revenues they bring theaters from people who normally don't come watch movies on a whim anymore.

This is sort of like Amazon's tactic with ebooks and such. Lose until your volume is high, then when you've cornered that particular market, negotiate a workable cost per unit. I really hope it works out -- but in all sincerity, I don't see why the theaters themselves aren't just copying this for their chains. MoviePass has already demonstrated the market.

Theaters are copying this for their chains - see Cinemark Movie Club and AMC Stubs A-List.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#129

Post by Jtsummers »

ironjunkie wrote: post #102
Jtsummers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this idea is that (at $9.95) someone in my area needs to see one movie in the evening and they're ahead. Two movies, and MoviePass needs them to not see a movie for a full month to almost catchup, and they'd still be behind by $1.50. During the big movie seasons, it's easy to see 2-5 movies in a month. I've only seen 2 movies (since April) that I wouldn't have seen without MoviePass. I've seen 15 mov…

you didn't really break even as you said it yourself you would only have paid for two movies out of the 15. The question is, do you really value the other 13 movies at (70$/13) a piece ? In my case probably not.

Perhaps I worded that poorly. I saw 13 movies I would've seen regardless, and 2 I wouldn't have seen. So I did break even (a bit better than, actually).

I, personally, enjoy going ot the theater, I always have. And in past years have seen at least this many movies (though with an emphasis on catching matinees and discounted options, like two-dollar Tuesday or whatever). Two movies (average) per month is not uncommon going back about 6 years for me, with some years being lower than others depending on the releases.

Re: MoviePass couldn’t afford to pay for movie tickets on Thursday

#130

Post by [deleted] »

pc86 wrote: post #69
jld wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Via Bloomberg... "Terms of the loan are onerous. Investment firm Hudson Bay Capital Management can demand repayment of more than $3 million of the loan on Aug. 1, and the rest on Aug. 5. Proceeds from a planned stock sale must also be used to repay the debt. If Helios and Matheson Analytics fails to pay, it will be subject to a 15 percent annualized late fee until it makes good on the obligation. If the company is 48…

I've never had a physical reaction to reading loan terms before. That is painful, I have to wonder if they have any plan to turn it around using this money or if it's literally a Hail Mary to buy just a little more time.

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