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The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#111

Post by jbrennan »

physcab wrote: post #109
pg wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds naive. The people running the labels are very cynical, and the way they're compensated makes them even more so. They don't have equity. They're motivated by bonuses that come out of this year's revenue. So they're not interested in building stuff. They just want to extract large amounts of money, this year, from whoever they can.

Yes, perhaps thinking the labels changing their ways (or hoping they do) over time is naive. I'll admit that (but I'd like to say optimistic instead). What the music industry needs is a platform where unsigned artists can go to promote their music without the help of the labels. This platform could probably act like a label, but better serve the artists and users. It would have to garner a lot of eyeballs so it could…

What I've been wondering is why Apple doesn't pony up and do just that.

They could say "Hey artists not [yet] on a label, join the iTunes Label. We're a great distribution channel, and we'll give you a 70/30 split."

OK so it's a bit far-fetched, and it really depends on what iTunes-as-a-label would provide (but with GarageBand/Logic/CuBase who needs tons of financing?). Really the only thing iTunes doesn't have a great story for would be touring (but even then, what better way to sell concert tickets than through iTunes/Ping?).

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#112

Post by yuvi »

jbrennan wrote: post #111
physcab wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, perhaps thinking the labels changing their ways (or hoping they do) over time is naive. I'll admit that (but I'd like to say optimistic instead). What the music industry needs is a platform where unsigned artists can go to promote their music without the help of the labels. This platform could probably act like a label, but better serve the artists and users. It would have to garner a lot of eyeballs so it could…

What I've been wondering is why Apple doesn't pony up and do just that. They could say "Hey artists not [yet] on a label, join the iTunes Label. We're a great distribution channel, and we'll give you a 70/30 split." OK so it's a bit far-fetched, and it really depends on what iTunes-as-a-label would provide (but with GarageBand/Logic/CuBase who needs tons of financing?). Really the only thing iTunes doesn't have a gre…

CDBaby and tunecore are pretty close I guess, they'll get you on iTunes and more (physical copies too in CDBaby's case)

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#113

Post by blhack »

jbrennan wrote: post #111
physcab wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, perhaps thinking the labels changing their ways (or hoping they do) over time is naive. I'll admit that (but I'd like to say optimistic instead). What the music industry needs is a platform where unsigned artists can go to promote their music without the help of the labels. This platform could probably act like a label, but better serve the artists and users. It would have to garner a lot of eyeballs so it could…

What I've been wondering is why Apple doesn't pony up and do just that. They could say "Hey artists not [yet] on a label, join the iTunes Label. We're a great distribution channel, and we'll give you a 70/30 split." OK so it's a bit far-fetched, and it really depends on what iTunes-as-a-label would provide (but with GarageBand/Logic/CuBase who needs tons of financing?). Really the only thing iTunes doesn't have a gre…

Because record labels are more about promotion than distribution (anymore). Amazon, cdbaby, etc. can all already do this.

Honestly, the artists don't even need those people anymore. I've seen artists who sell their music directly on their own site, and I don't see why more can't.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#114

Post by ethank »

olalonde wrote: post #93
bambax wrote: post #24

Isn't this just wishful thinking? Everybody hates labels, and so wishes them dead (and for the record, so do I). But just because everyone wants them to die doesn't mean they will die. Labels sit on content, and their monopoly is protected by the full force of the law. The number of startups in the field or the evilness of label people does seem a little bit irrelevant. There is only one way labels can die: if they c…

The article never said labels were going to die. It just pointed out how they screwed their digital future .

I wager it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#115

Post by steveklabnik »

jbrennan wrote: post #111
physcab wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, perhaps thinking the labels changing their ways (or hoping they do) over time is naive. I'll admit that (but I'd like to say optimistic instead). What the music industry needs is a platform where unsigned artists can go to promote their music without the help of the labels. This platform could probably act like a label, but better serve the artists and users. It would have to garner a lot of eyeballs so it could…

What I've been wondering is why Apple doesn't pony up and do just that. They could say "Hey artists not [yet] on a label, join the iTunes Label. We're a great distribution channel, and we'll give you a 70/30 split." OK so it's a bit far-fetched, and it really depends on what iTunes-as-a-label would provide (but with GarageBand/Logic/CuBase who needs tons of financing?). Really the only thing iTunes doesn't have a gre…

IIRC, Apple is not allowed to start a record label due to one of the settlements they made with Apple Records.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#116

Post by steveklabnik »

run4yourlives wrote: post #84

I don't know if it was just me growing up, but music changed dramatically right after Napster was forced to kill itself. Perhaps someone else can support this: "Music" has never been the same since then. It seemed so much more available, so much more pervasive, more frequently invasive to my life; better than it is now. Like I said, I've grown. But it seems that as the generation behind me moved online in a major way…

"But I have a take on that - people only made money out of records for a very, very small time. When The Rolling Stones started out, we didn't make any money out of records because record companies wouldn't pay you! They didn't pay anyone! Then, there was a small period from 1970 to 1997, where people did get paid, and they got paid very handsomely and everyone made money. But now that period has gone. So if you look at the history of recorded music from 1900 to now, there was a 25 year period where artists did very well, but the rest of the time they didn't."

- Mick Jagger: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8681410.stm

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#117

Post by elblanco »

Maybe the real answer is an entirely new label, having to start from zero (sign on new artists, establish new distribution channels, etc.), but with a corporate philosophy diametrically opposite the existing market and simply subvert the whole thing.

Small labels like https://www.candyrat.com/ are signing on new and growing artists.

it's not like the major labels have much in the way of good music to offer these days anyways

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#118

Post by chrischen »

pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

Not all music startups have to be arms of the labels right? Do you think it's possible to develop a music startup independent and free of any association with record labels?

The way I see it is that if it's possible to do this then the reward would be huge since the system is so broken.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#119

Post by lambda »

chrischen wrote: post #118
pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

Not all music startups have to be arms of the labels right? Do you think it's possible to develop a music startup independent and free of any association with record labels? The way I see it is that if it's possible to do this then the reward would be huge since the system is so broken.

No, it's not really possible, since the labels have a government supported monopoly (with pretty serious enforcement, and lots of laws in place to prevent most clever workarounds) on pretty much all the music that anyone wants to listen to.

Even people who like to listen to indie music usually have some more mainstream music owned by the big labels that they want to listen to. The problem is that most people won't stick with a service that doesn't offer the range of music they want to listen to.

And of course, the other issue with an all-indie catalog is that then you have a lot more players to negotiate with, many of whom will be just as clueless as the big labels.

So, you might be able to start a business with a small fraction of the indie labels represented, and appeal to a fairly small demographic, but there just isn't much room for growth there. I remember trying to use Emusic back in the day; while there was some music on there that I was interested in, it didn't even begin to cover most of what I was looking for.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#120

Post by chris11 »

ethank wrote: post #49
kiba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big labels don't feel like changing, not that they cannot change. They are a bunch of human beings at all. Aren't human beings flexible enough to thrive anywhere on earth? Yet, some humans choose to die rather than adapt. The labels don't want to deal with the changing business. So they rather die.

Again, have you ever visited or spoken to anyone at a label? Next time you are in SoCal, email me. I'm serious. :)

I'm not sure if you can answer this or not, but in your opinion what would it take to get some type of voluntary licensing going for music?

I personally would rather pay a monthly fee than pay for each individual song or cd. I also want the ability to do what I want with the music. I don't want to have to work to get music on an mp3 player or worry about whether I'm going to randomly lose access to songs in library, which has happened with Ruckus.

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