Live data from Hacker News

Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

nature.com

21–30 of 261 posts

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#21
3-4 new polymetalic mines can easily double the global cobalt supply.

The story with cobalt is the same as with REEs and Lithium - they are everywhere, but few big companies dare to mine them expecting the business to go bust the moment China or Congo resort to further dumping

For Nickel, global supply is being dominated by a price cartel, doing the same thing.

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#22
post #5

This is supposing that we want big cars with big batteries, In the cities the mobility is moving toward small personal vehicles, and if you have bigger commuter needs, I hope that in the future the highways can be electrified and the cars would only need the battery to get from the highway to your home. There are not enough minerals to make batteries to replace all the current cars with their current autonomy, but a…

> I hope that in the future the highways can be electrified

Obligatory remark: Let's also put the cars on metal rails instead of on asphalt to reduce rolling friction. And maybe instead of small cars, we could use large wagons or chains of those that could transport a lot of people at the same time.

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#23
post #9

As one of my favorite comedians once put it: „Analysts are people who tell you what the world will look like in 15 years if nothing changes. Now do you REALLY want to know how long your toenails get if you don‘t cut them?!“ Movement here will come from a number of factors: - Demand increases, which will: - open up more mines (nicely summarized in the long commentary in this thread) - incentivize better extraction tec…

"Analysts are people who tell you what the world will look like in 15 years if nothing changes."

I noticed at the bottom of the page this disclosure:

"Competing Financial Interests

G.Y. is a co-founder, chief technology officer, a board member and a shareholder of Sila Nanotechnologies, the company commercializing silicon-based anode materials mentioned in this Comment article."

Referring to co-author Gleb Yushin, "a professor of materials science at the School of Materials Science & Engineering, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, USA."

The other three authors are:

Kostiantyn Turcheniuk, "a research scientist at the School of Materials Science & Engineering, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, USA."

Dmitry Bondarev, "an undergraduate student at the School of Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, USA."

Vinod Singhal, "a professor of business at the Scheller College of Business, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, USA."

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#24
post #9

As one of my favorite comedians once put it: „Analysts are people who tell you what the world will look like in 15 years if nothing changes. Now do you REALLY want to know how long your toenails get if you don‘t cut them?!“ Movement here will come from a number of factors: - Demand increases, which will: - open up more mines (nicely summarized in the long commentary in this thread) - incentivize better extraction tec…

I also feel like articles like this tend to evoke some kind of sharp discontinuity – as if we’ll suddenly run out of nickel, and prices will explode. But the fact that we can predict the problem 10 years out is exactly why that won’t happen. Even if we do hit a hard limit without any natural tapering in supply, the clearer it becomes that we’re approaching a shortage, the more speculators will buy up current supply, smoothing the process out.

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#25
post #9

As one of my favorite comedians once put it: „Analysts are people who tell you what the world will look like in 15 years if nothing changes. Now do you REALLY want to know how long your toenails get if you don‘t cut them?!“ Movement here will come from a number of factors: - Demand increases, which will: - open up more mines (nicely summarized in the long commentary in this thread) - incentivize better extraction tec…

I don't like over confidence in any resource access, that's probably what oil digger thought 100 years ago.

Doesn't this example go against your point? I've been hearing that we were nearing the end of the oil supply since I've been a kid but the date keeps being pushed back. As the demand for oil grows the price goes up and new methods to extract more oil from the ground become profitable. Now current projections seem to target the 2050s at the earliest.

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#28
post #5

This is supposing that we want big cars with big batteries, In the cities the mobility is moving toward small personal vehicles, and if you have bigger commuter needs, I hope that in the future the highways can be electrified and the cars would only need the battery to get from the highway to your home. There are not enough minerals to make batteries to replace all the current cars with their current autonomy, but a…

> I hope that in the future the highways can be electrified Obligatory remark: Let's also put the cars on metal rails instead of on asphalt to reduce rolling friction. And maybe instead of small cars, we could use large wagons or chains of those that could transport a lot of people at the same time.

Yeah... but that's kinda missing something. Can't we put it into a vacuum tube instead, preferably underground?

Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?

#30
post #16

TL;DR: Battery demand grows. Best current tech uses nickel and cobalt. Their prices grow and at the current growth trends demand outstrips supply within 20 years. We should fund research (in the author's area) to find better alternatives (e.g., using iron and silicon). This is valid but not surprising and hardly catastrophic. This is not "10 years left to find an alternative". But what turned me off is scaremongering…

To the point, the prices are so damn low that only by the worst production methods is extraction even economically feasible. Higher prices will lead to production in less reckless environments, which is a good thing.
Post reply on HN