Reading this: https://www.quora.com/Is-software-development-really-a-dead-end-job-after-age-35-40
But it seems grey bias is deep rooted.
Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
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Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#2This following is meant this in sincere and non-snarky way:
If the problems you are working on can actually be done/solved at a large table with lots of people around, then it probably isn't a problem that requires 10+ years of experience i.e. it probably could be done by someone younger/cheaper. [Of course, if you "hack" around this by coming in early, working from home, etc. you aren't actually "doing it at a table with lots of people around you".]
I know lots of gray haired guys solving problems in the desktop and embedded space. I'm a not-a-genius developer/consultant and at 0x38 years old, I have no problem getting work.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#3This following is meant this in sincere and non-snarky way: If the problems you are working on can actually be done/solved at a large table with lots of people around, then it probably isn't a problem that requires 10+ years of experience i.e. it probably could be done by someone younger/cheaper. [Of course, if you "hack" around this by coming in early, working from home, etc. you aren't actually "doing it at a table…
0x38 is cool. Never thought about doing that. Hex years. Makes everything seem younger. I'm still an 0x20-something then, not so bad! :)
I thin I'd like to get into the niche / older spaces, liked embedded / desktop, but I wanted to learn a lot about web dev / cloud first, based on interest and curiosity.
I programmed in C when younger, and had an embedded opportunity a couple years ago in it which I turned down, but I think I'd like to take that up now.
Do you think there's more work / less applicants ( or at least a higher such ratio ), in C / embedded, etc?
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#4This following is meant this in sincere and non-snarky way: If the problems you are working on can actually be done/solved at a large table with lots of people around, then it probably isn't a problem that requires 10+ years of experience i.e. it probably could be done by someone younger/cheaper. [Of course, if you "hack" around this by coming in early, working from home, etc. you aren't actually "doing it at a table…
0x38 is cool. Never thought about doing that. Hex years. Makes everything seem younger. I'm still an 0x20-something then, not so bad! :) I thin I'd like to get into the niche / older spaces, liked embedded / desktop, but I wanted to learn a lot about web dev / cloud first, based on interest and curiosity. I programmed in C when younger, and had an embedded opportunity a couple years ago in it which I turned down, but…
>Do you think there's more work / less applicants ( or at least a higher such ratio ), in C / embedded, etc?
I don't know but I think you are on the right track thinking in terms of ratios. If there are (only) 100 jobs for technology X and 90 people with that skill, that's a good skill to have. If there are 10000 jobs for technology Y and 11000 developers for that technology, the ratio is not as favorable.
I think the Internet Of Things (IOT) might be a nice bridge from the "webby" world to the embedded one. One of my friends was doing node.js on an embedded medical device for example. (Queue "Security is the 'S' in IOT.")
At the end of the day, job security is based on creating value. If you want to be remunerated well for that value, you don't want to have a lot of direct competition.
I deliver solutions on the "edge" of the embedded realm sometimes - things that run on small Linux computers (Beagle Bones and Raspberry Pi). I can't speak to the demand for "real" embedded developers. By "real" I mean dealing with things like "board bring up" and FPGAs. Perhaps the graybeards I know that do that stuff are there through selection bias.
As consultant, I create the software for complete products or the core technology/secret sauce for companies that don't have that skill in-house. They could hire a skilled web developer fairly easily (assuming they pay reasonably). It's a lot harder to higher a developer that can turn data packets into a radar display, make a desktop product to monitor laser plasma emissions or track a flying golf ball using computer vision (my last 3 projects).
I hope that was helpful.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#5Find a niche that serves as a barrier to entry to the young, trendy, and easily distracted. Security clearance could be one example.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#6Not really sure if this mindset is more regionally based than anything else but as a full stack developer working in Toronto at 24 years old I've never heard of this stigma in the workplace. The past 2 companies I've worked at have all had an average age of 40+. Same story for most of my college friends now working in the GTA.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#7I hear that, but I haven't seen it. The age range where I work (small company) goes from 20 to almost 70. Same at the last two $BIG_CORP jobs, except there the bottom of the range was a bit higher.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#8Fellows, grey bias, impostor syndrome, burnout, toxicity, anxiety and the others are all symptoms of the rigid mindstate that permeates our industry.
It has to do with the curse of comfort and a lack of emotional agility which is exceptionally pronounced in this industry for many reasons which I shall not accentuate here except to state that `casual` is another word for `toxic` in my view.
I would care to suggest to everyone in this thread the following work: http://a.co/3Wlz2bw
Having read this book my views on how we ought to be engaging in our day-to-day have been completely transformed. Going from a rigid mindstate to a growth mindstate changes the whole game and I bet you anything it would go a long way to alleviating the burden of grey bias and all the other evils we face.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#9I believe (vanilla) software development is a young man's/woman's game. I realized this last year at age 38 and I've been rapidly trying to alter my career trajectory.
- If you aren't a specialist, you are constantly competing against 20-somethings who will always be more current in their skills and breadth than yourself, because they have more free time than you have (e.g. I have a wife, kid)
- I've written GUI widgets from scratch, servers from scratch, same thing with linked lists, sorting, etc. Guess what? That doesn't likely justify an ever-increasing salary. No one cares.
- Older programmers tend to be very opinionated and have lots of war stories. This gets on peoples nerves. The stereotype, based entirely on truth, is that they are cranky and hard to work with.
I don't believe the same is true in specialized disciplines like engineering or modelling/simulation, numerical programming, etc. A 40, 50, 60 year-old engineer/mathematician/analytics developer doesn't have the same stigma. Those decades of experience are invaluable. The fundamentals of engineering or statistics aren't being reinvented every 3-5 years. Web development skills that are 5 years old are literally worthless today. Aside from general problem solving techniques, unless you've really specialized, the stuff you developed 10-20 years ago is of minimal value today and that experience (writing software that is now obsolete and could now be written in a fraction of the time, likely!) doesn't make you competitive against younger programmers.
My takeaway was to go deep as possible into analytics and math. AI, ML, anything that requires heavy math background, those are what I'm focusing on now.
Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?
#10I find the whole hypothesis of the "grey bias" to be rather baffling. My personal thought is that boomers are puzzled that this industry doesn't confirm to the standards set in the other engineering discipline (ie younger workers are treated like shit and expected to like it with next to no advancement opportunities).
In my experience, older (20+ years exp) workers that have kept their skills sharp and were above average throughout their careers tend to do well. However, those that expect software to work like other engineering fields, where seniority is a sole function of tenure, tend to take arms and complain about the new generation out performing them.