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Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

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Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#541

Post by gregmac »

philwelch wrote: post #309
gregmac wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm firmly in the "email has no place in internal discussions whatsoever" camp. Tasks belong in tickets, long-term documentation/policies/meeting notes/etc belong in shared space (wiki), and discussions are faster and more productive in realtime (in-person, video call, or chat). E-mail might kick some of this off, or be used to schedule, but that should be it. The problem I think most people run into with the realtim…

"discussions are faster and more productive in realtime" Real-time discussion is great if you don't have to think about what you're going to say before you say it. Unfortunately, that places a very, very low upper limit on the level of depth and consideration that a discussion can reach. Some decisions are hard enough and some situations are nuanced enough that you need to take your time with them, enough that the ad…

One of my biggest frustrations with e-mail as long-form discussion like this is misunderstanding points. Someone will write paragraphs of text arguing their position, but they made a bad assumption or missed something simple at the start that either partly or completely invalidates the rest of what they are saying. Depending on if people realize this or not, it's easy to slip into a kind of bike-shedding discussion arguing about the incorrect details. I've been on both sides of this, and it's one of the reasons I dislike e-mail for it.

I tend towards being an introvert, and I'm not always good at coming up with an argument on the spot. I recognize this, and I will often end the real-time discussion by literally just saying "Ok, I need to go think about this before we discuss it anymore. Let's come back in a day or two." Just like you don't have to respond to e-mails the instant they come in, you don't have to do it for real-time or chat, either.

I will also do the same to others when I can. For example, yesterday I suggested a new approach to how a certain part of our product works, and pitched it to the team. There was only minor feedback so I just said "okay, go think about it, and I'll bring it up again later", so I will probably ask tomorrow to see if anyone has further thoughts on it. It's amazing what sleeping on ideas can do.

The thing I'm really trying to get at here is real-time doesn't mean "now! now! now!". There's absolutely nothing wrong with several meetings over the course of days or weeks or months. For strategic and key design discussions, there should absolutely be documentation written between those discussions. In fact, that's basically the way I operate: discuss, document, give time for people to review, and then discuss again, repeating as much as needed.

There's people that are opposite and want the response "now!", and don't want to take time to think through problems -- but I would guess there's a large overlap with the type of people that come over to your desk / call you and say "I just sent you an e-mail, did you get it?" and then only read the first sentence or two of your reply anyway.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#542

Post by konschubert »

it33 wrote: post #509
solatic wrote: post #107

Huge problem for on-prem Hipchat customers. Plenty of customers out there not willing to put all their internal communications on the other side of their firewall, and now have to migrate. Slack doesn't have an on-prem option. Microsoft Teams doesn't have an on-prem option. What are enterprises supposed to use, RocketChat? Matrix? With no clear migration path? Really poor move on Atlassian's part. It would be one thi…

Mattermost CEO here. We're thinking of offering a special package for HipChat customers who want to stay on-prem using Mattermost. It's perhaps a mix of services, migration/import assistance and possibly a discount to our commercial version. Would such a package be interesting? For anyone who'd like to discuss outside of HN, please feel free to mail us at info at mattermost.com

Hi,

Off topic question and hopefully not perceived as mean:

Why don't you type your email address with an @ ? Wouldn't you expect the higher conversion rate to outweigh the mostly theoretical increase in spam emails? Or is there another reason?

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#543

Post by tabbott »

omnimus wrote: post #534
tabbott wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's theoretically possible to write a secure project in PHP, but it's very difficult, especially if you're hiring people like crazy. If you divide the amount they've paid out in bounties by the number of bounties paid, and compare with their bounty tier rules, it's clear that a lot of the vulnerabilities that were reported in Slack are relatively severe. (And I agree bug bounty programs are great; we also us…

It is not about the language is it... I don't think there is so big difference between php and python. Besides Slack is most probably using whole lot more tech than php. It is about Zullip being open source.

It's also about the language. See, for example,

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-PHP-hated-by-so-many-developers

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#544

Post by solatic »

it33 wrote: post #509
solatic wrote: post #107

Huge problem for on-prem Hipchat customers. Plenty of customers out there not willing to put all their internal communications on the other side of their firewall, and now have to migrate. Slack doesn't have an on-prem option. Microsoft Teams doesn't have an on-prem option. What are enterprises supposed to use, RocketChat? Matrix? With no clear migration path? Really poor move on Atlassian's part. It would be one thi…

Mattermost CEO here. We're thinking of offering a special package for HipChat customers who want to stay on-prem using Mattermost. It's perhaps a mix of services, migration/import assistance and possibly a discount to our commercial version. Would such a package be interesting? For anyone who'd like to discuss outside of HN, please feel free to mail us at info at mattermost.com

Hey, I sent you guys an email - looking forward to hearing from you

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#545

Post by __sr__ »

solatic wrote: post #267
__sr__ wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also Zulip ( https://zulipchat.com )

Zulip actually seems to tick a lot of boxes for us, I'll see about bringing it in and spinning it up on a box. Thanks for the recommendation!

Happy to help!

Disclaimer: I am not associated with Zulip in any way.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#546

Post by steve1977 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #300
solatic wrote: post #107

Huge problem for on-prem Hipchat customers. Plenty of customers out there not willing to put all their internal communications on the other side of their firewall, and now have to migrate. Slack doesn't have an on-prem option. Microsoft Teams doesn't have an on-prem option. What are enterprises supposed to use, RocketChat? Matrix? With no clear migration path? Really poor move on Atlassian's part. It would be one thi…

We might have to revert to talking. Aahhhhh!

Or - yikes - doing work, instead of just communicating about work.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#547

Post by HaloZero »

adventured wrote: post #96
arjun27 wrote: post #8

This reminds me of Aaron Levie’s recent take on Kara Swisher’s podcast - on how enterprise software is going to be either about Microsoft (jack of trades) or about a collection of smaller companies (specialists in their fields) integrated with one and other. Slack and Atlassian focusing on what makes them great and working together makes a lot of sense

Levie is wrong. His personal bias is showing: an over optimism that Box can survive as an independent long-term. It's going to be Microsoft and other giants. There's no scenario where Slack remains an independent company, for the exact same reason there was never a scenario where Github remained an independent company. It'll be surprising if Slack is still independent three years from now. It's perpetual consolidatio…

I'm curious then why did nobody buy Atlassian then? There's a possibility that a new company grows out of one of them.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#548

Post by TeMPOraL »

konschubert wrote: post #542
it33 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mattermost CEO here. We're thinking of offering a special package for HipChat customers who want to stay on-prem using Mattermost. It's perhaps a mix of services, migration/import assistance and possibly a discount to our commercial version. Would such a package be interesting? For anyone who'd like to discuss outside of HN, please feel free to mail us at info at mattermost.com

Hi, Off topic question and hopefully not perceived as mean: Why don't you type your email address with an @ ? Wouldn't you expect the higher conversion rate to outweigh the mostly theoretical increase in spam emails? Or is there another reason?

Higher conversion rate? This is a simple, age-old trick that eliminates most of the low-effort spambots (read: most of them, as there's enough money made there), while letting through any human that is smarter than an amoeba.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#549

Post by osdiab »

mdeeks wrote: post #279
komali2 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some inexplicable reason, in the absurdly big Hack Reactor alumni slack, it's considered cool to scoff at people asking for conversations to be taken into threads. There's like 3000 people in there. Sometimes shitloads of conversations are happening at once. The people that refuse to use threads aren't cool, they're just co-opting literally the entire channel for just their conversation. I see it as a forum, wher…

Ask, don't scoff? Also to be fair, Slack's implementation of threads is awful. Probably their most poorly done feature in my mind. If there is already a lively topic ongoing in a room and I need to jump in with another topic, I write a message and say "Hey I have a question, can someone help me?" and then I immediately start a thread with myself so people see that it is a thread and click it to respond rather than ju…

I tried out Twist with my team and I loved it. Much easier to keep up with corporate communications—people tag you on the threads you absolutely should care about, for the rest you can skip entire conversations if they aren't relevant to you instead of sifting through a giant unorganized Slack channel. Searching works well. Idk how scripting bots for it goes but I never really cared for 99% of the bots people write for Slack so I never minded. Highly recommend.

In my current team that uses Slack, I just made it a policy that all conversations have to be in threads. If they're not I just flip a shit until people give up and make threads again lol. Most people don't care enough to retaliate, so that happened a few times and then everybody got used to the system; this is basically an approximation of Twist now (where the destructive behavior is super easy to commit... sigh)

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#550

Post by freeone3000 »

solatic wrote: post #107

Huge problem for on-prem Hipchat customers. Plenty of customers out there not willing to put all their internal communications on the other side of their firewall, and now have to migrate. Slack doesn't have an on-prem option. Microsoft Teams doesn't have an on-prem option. What are enterprises supposed to use, RocketChat? Matrix? With no clear migration path? Really poor move on Atlassian's part. It would be one thi…

Microsoft Teams has on-prem support.
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