Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#341

Post by nostrademons » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:52 AM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #300

jancsika wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyways, this is not communist 'community involvement' level yet, but the government should have no say on a person's personal private time. Zoning itself is quite a loud say from the government about what someone may do in their personal private time in their personal private property. For example, you can't run a bakery in your personal private time in an area zoned only for residential use. Do you think zoning s…

If zoning weren't legal, lots of things would change. Mostly for the better, but perhaps not entirely. There would be a lot more pedestrians and cyclists, and a lot fewer automobiles, in most urban areas. On the other hand you might live closer to a tavern. I lived in Denver for a few years; it's not so bad to live close to taverns.

There's actually a real example of this, and it basically shows the opposite of your point.

The city of Houston has no zoning laws - you are free to build wherever, whatever, occupied by whomever, subject only to market forces and contracts. The result has been a sprawling, car-driven metropolis where to get anywhere, you need at least a 20-minute drive in a car. My sister lives in a development of over 10,000 people, all single-family homes spread over several square miles of drained floodplain. There is basically zero commercial or office space in the development; to get to the nearest restaurant or supermarket, she needs to get on the highway. Her husband has roughly an hour commute to work; she had a 45-minute commute when she was working. The highways are so congested at rush hour that you use privately-developed toll roads to get across town if you have the money.

There's also various absurdities like people being sold homes inside flood-control reservoirs, or sex shops next to preschools, or residential homes next to chemical storage tanks.

On the plus side, housing is really cheap - the same house that would go for $1.5M in my neighborhood in Sunnyvale (a 3BR2BA on 1/4 acre) goes for under $200K in Houston. My sister lives in a gorgeous 5BR4BA waterfront property that cost < $600K; you literally can't find anything for that price where I live.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#342

Post by closeparen » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:54 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #53

ironjunkie wrote: post #31

This is one of the most stupid policy I have ever seen in the bay area (and there are a lot of stupid ones over here). As much as I dislike some of the big tech cos and the TechBros working there bragging about the free food all the time, I still believe a company should be able to decide if they want to offer food or not. Restaurants were unable to turn a profit, so they lobbied successfully and now everyone beside…

To be fair, it's not quite 'economy 101'. Or rather, 'economy 101' is that anyone with enough leverage, will use monopoly powers in one area, to take control of an adjacent economy. American Oil empires were not built on some new amazing way to get at oil, it was because some had control of the railroads, and charged their competitors a little more to transport therefore putting them out of business (through aggressi…

>We live in communities, not economies.

The City already tries to foster community by forcing people to share space against their will, via public transit. It's a dystopian hellscape, not a community. You can't just build those by force.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#343

Post by nostrademons » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:59 AM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #294

nostrademons wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Village at San Antonio is not North Bayshore. This wouldn't work at Google's current campus because there are literally not enough restaurants to feed everyone - there were 4 when I worked there (Sports Page + the Sunnybowl/Falafel/Sushi complex), and since then Sports Page has closed and there are apparently a few new ones by the Computer History Museum. Perhaps the new zoning plans for North Bayshore include mo…

...Facebook has felt that the restriction is not too onerous for the building to be worth occupying. Perhaps originally they thought they could inspire enough of a public outcry like that seen in this thread to get the rules relaxed eventually... with their recent PR troubles that probably won't happen.

I'd bet that it's honestly not that important to them. They'll probably forego the cafeteria and just let their highly-paid employees buy lunch the way 99% of the population does. It won't be a popular building to work at, but if you work at Facebook, are you really gonna quit because you work at an office without a cafe? You've probably got bigger things on your mind, like the 20% drop in the stock price that happened today.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#344

Post by fzzzy » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:01 AM UTC

dunpeal wrote: post #298

fzzzy wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've been hearing about fully remote virtual teams thirty years ago, before the internet really existed? Sure, the Mother of all Demos showed off remote collaborative work in 1968.

> Sure, the Mother of all Demos showed off remote collaborative work in 1968. ...and was certainly an exciting futuristic demo, but unfortunately neither practical nor feasible with the actual widely available technologies of its time.

But we’ve still been hearing about how remote work and the paperless office is the future for 50 years.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#345

Post by st26 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:01 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #342

sonnyblarney wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's not quite 'economy 101'. Or rather, 'economy 101' is that anyone with enough leverage, will use monopoly powers in one area, to take control of an adjacent economy. American Oil empires were not built on some new amazing way to get at oil, it was because some had control of the railroads, and charged their competitors a little more to transport therefore putting them out of business (through aggressi…

>We live in communities, not economies. The City already tries to foster community by forcing people to share space against their will, via public transit. It's a dystopian hellscape, not a community. You can't just build those by force.

It's hard to imagine your local city bus is so unpleasant to be called a dystopian hellscape.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#346

Post by hinkley » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:07 AM UTC

jotux wrote: post #148

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98

> The ban wouldn't be retroactive, however, so on-site food at companies like Google and Twitter would still be available Cool, so start-ups lose a potential hiring perk to the incumbents. (Does anyone know the story behind this bill? Which politicians and restaurants supported it? I’d like to avoid the latter going forward.)

The title could almost be: "Large tech companies lobby local officials to allow them to offer exclusive employment benefits."

Technically grandfather clauses are about spreading out the confrontation to sneak policy through.

But sometimes it looks a lot like collusion.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#347

Post by closeparen » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:11 AM UTC

st26 wrote: post #345

closeparen wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We live in communities, not economies. The City already tries to foster community by forcing people to share space against their will, via public transit. It's a dystopian hellscape, not a community. You can't just build those by force.

It's hard to imagine your local city bus is so unpleasant to be called a dystopian hellscape.

While I was a BART commuter, I walked a gauntlet of slumped-over hard drug users, sprawled-out homeless people, human urine, and feces every day. Fortunately, I've only seen people drop their pants and take a shit on the sidewalk in front of me twice. Missed a random stabbing on the stairwell into my station by about 5 minutes.

This is Civic Center Station, which serves Twitter, Uber, and Square. No amount of tech worker foot traffic is going to clean up an area if the government isn't willing to police it.

Video doesn't even show the worst part, but helps to illustrate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gT5NULvRSk

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#348

Post by gamblor956 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:14 AM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #323

gamblor956 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a growing problem. California grows less attractive as more of these exploitative measures and taxes pile up, and the impact is noticeable. No NorCal location was in the shortlist for Amazon's 2nd HQ, for instance. Hahaha. California is a very nice place to live, and very many people want to live here. Last year, California's economy grew so much that it took back its spot as #5 in the world...behind only the US…

> Last year, California's economy grew so much that it took back its spot as #5 in the world...behind only the US, China, Japan, and Germany, That's not really saying much given its population AND its land area. It should be performing right where it is.

??? Alaska and Texas are geographically larger states. France and Algeria are both geographically larger and have more people. As does India. Canada is roughly the same size population-wise but has significantly more land and natural resources available for extraction...

However you measure it, California is outperforming other states and other nations.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#349

Post by heurist » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:21 AM UTC

rco8786 wrote: post #280

dmode wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no truth to your assertion that companies will be leaving Bay. Google, Facebook, Salesforce etc. are actually massively expanding their Bay Area footprint. Google is expanding their Mountain View and building a massive new headquarters https://sf.curbed.com/2017/3/8/14858200/google-headquarters-... Google is also expanding into San Jose Apple just recently completed their spaceship campus Facebook is massive…

I don’t understand the obsession with Austin. It’s actually quite a small player in the tech industry.

The best startups and investment out here tend to be second-tier compared to the Bay Area. It's improving but still small and far from SF-level success. That said, second tier is great compared to everywhere outside of the Bay Area and NYC.

I'd recommend not moving to Central Texas, by the way. Water availability is going to be a huge issue as the population continues to increase. Cities aren't feeling it yet but the small towns on the fringes definitely are - and the issue will continue to spread.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#350

Post by justinzollars » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 4:21 AM UTC

extralego wrote: post #275

justinzollars wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you use the apathy card on me. I've given money to and advocate for Moderates and I was an elected Hillary Clinton Delegate. Personally I encourage you to let @AaronPeskin know how you feel on this matter. He is the "progressive" who introduced this nonsense.

“Moderate” politics == corporate donations + laissez-faire - public relations. This policy is just the public relations part. It’s particularly designed to appease local small business owners without having any measurable effect on the corporate profits. This is as moderate as it gets. There’s nothing “progressive” about this nonsense. This is exactly the kind of nitpicking contortions moderates perform when they are…

Sorry dude, I am what I am. The Trump era has really turned me off to extremism. So I judge policies by their results.

San Francisco's "progressivism" has really turned me off because there is just so much failure of policy here. And while we should be talking about anything other than tech cafeterias, we are talking about cafeterias.