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Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

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Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#171

Post by [deleted] »

tormeh wrote: post #157
rayiner wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the ads are not about “not liking foreigners.” They are about a country with very different beliefs and attitudes joining a bloc where they will have voting rights in bodies that have legislative power over people in the UK. That is a completely different thing. And Turkey applied to the EU in 1987, has been a full candidate EU member since 1999, and since then has been in active negotiations to join.

That's a process the UK, as a member state, used to have veto over. Not sure if they have lost it yet, but now or in the near future they'll just have to live with whatever the rest decide. That is, unless they want to leave the single market, which doesn't look very likely.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#172

Post by NeedMoreTea »

GW150914 wrote: post #168
derriz wrote: post #47

This isn't the only shenanigans surrounding the leave campaign. Here's another example of dodgy Leave Campaign funding - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-44624299 - where the DUP, a Northern Irish party, was given $600,000 to campaign for Leave by a shell company and spent most of it on advertisements in media that wasn't even available in Northern Ireland. But it's not surprising really. There has been a…

Remember when The Daily Express said that 150 new EU laws were “Ruining Britain,” and these were their top 8 of those laws? https://mobile.twitter.com/StuartWilksHeeg/status/4814529276... Tag line of TDE article* The merciless grip of Brussels on the lives of millions of Britons is laid bare today by the Daily Express. So merciless. It seems like a lot of the “anti-EU” sentiment expressed amounted to dog whistles for…

It's a very long time since the Express resembled a decent newspaper. It's seemed well into Sunday Sport territory after Desmond bought it.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#173

Post by stevesimmons »

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #159
to_bpr wrote: post #16

It's disappointing, but not surprising, that the focus seems to be entirely on the "wrong" side of the "desired" outcome. At this point it amounts to fighting very hard to find any reason to undo a democratically determined result.

It really does come down to sour grapes. The mental contortions people go to question a democratically determined result really is telling. A lot of people are only fans of democracy when it goes their way.

Truth, fair play, acknowledging real constraints, getting the right result for the right reasons... Those aspects matter to sensible people. Calling it "sour grapes" is a lazy mischaracterization.

I voted Remain. I would have reluctantly accepted the result if in the last two years the Brexit proponents had executed any reasonable plan with any degree of competence. They haven't, so I don't.

Two years on, the Brexiteers are still full of lies, misrepresentations and stupid bluster. Just like the premise behind the targeted FB ads that are the subject of this post.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#174

Post by growlist »

untog wrote: post #162
growlist wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly think the Leave side was equivalently establishment backed as Remain? Leave had the BBC, PM, EU, banks, even the most powerful man in the world all lined up on its side.

I think the Leave side was considerably more backed than the conventional narrative portrays. And received additional illegal, undisclosed funding, hence the reason for this post in the first place. And I still don't understand what you think should have happened. People across the world should have conferred to make sure that representation for both sides was exactly 50/50? The United States had the view that the UK…

Should or should not is something you've introduced yourself. I was saying it was never a fair fight to start with and given this the incessant sour grapes from the overwhelming favourite has an air of pathos about it.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#175

Post by untog »

growlist wrote: post #174
untog wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Leave side was considerably more backed than the conventional narrative portrays. And received additional illegal, undisclosed funding, hence the reason for this post in the first place. And I still don't understand what you think should have happened. People across the world should have conferred to make sure that representation for both sides was exactly 50/50? The United States had the view that the UK…

Should or should not is something you've introduced yourself. I was saying it was never a fair fight to start with and given this the incessant sour grapes from the overwhelming favourite has an air of pathos about it.

>it was never a fair fight to start with

What is a fair fight in this context? If there was a referendum to decide whether the country believes in evolution would you make sure the balance of scientists vs cranks in the public sphere was exactly 50:50? The vast majority of people with knowledge in the area knew that Brexit was a terrible idea, so they said so. And reality has proven them right. Or is this a prelude to complaining that the EU isn't being "fair" because it won't give the UK what it wants?

> this the incessant sour grapes from the overwhelming favourite

Remain was obviously not the favourite because it lost. That the winning side continues to paint itself as a victimised minority speaks volumes.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#176

Post by tomp »

Xylakant wrote: post #170
tomp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU promised Turkey that the talks would continue, in exchange Turkey would keep immigrants at bay. So either the fear is more justified than you portray it to be, or EU is at least as hypocritical as you portray Vote Leave to be.

The talks have been ongoing for a decade now. Few parts of the talks have been finished, many haven’t even started. And seriously, if Turkey ever comes around to fulfilling all of the requirements, it will have to become a very different country than it is today. Yes, talks are ongoing and some reason for that is politics - the talks are one of the ways the EU can influence turkish politics. Some of that is quite ope…

> But Vote Leave is peddling xenophobia, which is quite a different accusation.

Well we've listed many arguments counter your claim in this thread already, so I guess if you haven't been convinced yet, you won't be...

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#177

Post by growlist »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #166
growlist wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EU were not already loathed by some the stories would find no audience, is my belief. For example, I met a plasterer who said that immigrants were destroying his livelihood by working for peanuts. If I were him I'd probably blame the EU also. But I also think the result was seen as an opportunity to send a general two fingered FU to the establishment, both UK and EU - I don't think the coordinated FUD and Obam…

Outside of regular hit pieces in the Daily Mail and Telegraph there's little real awareness of the EU in the UK. The EU haven't been especially good at getting the message about their successes out. The little we do see is an occasional news piece about a joint venture or a little EU flag on some region's signage because they received development funding. The irony that some of the most resounding leave votes were in…

To an extent I think the whole thing is borderline unknowable and inseparable from political leanings, so I bid you goodnight Sir.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#178

Post by HumanDrivenDev »

pjc50 wrote: post #164
HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. It's really hard to imagine what a Hilary Clinton presidency would have been like. She might have been impeached at this point. Likewise, it's really hard to tell what the long term effects of Brexit will be. I think history will be in a better position to judge it 10 years down the line. But I really think people need to get over both results. It's been two years now. The remoaners are much worse than…

> She might have been impeached at this point Why? > need to get over both results The results deliver real harm to real people. The separated immigrant children are probably never going to get over it, for example. And I'm not going to get over a result while I'm still worrying about stockpiling food. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexi... > Imagine if between 2008-2016 HN had been full of o…

She might have been impeached at this point

Because she was incredibly corrupt. Seems likely that foreign intelligence agencies had even more information they could leak.

The separated immigrant children are probably never going to get over it, for example.

It's unfortunate their parents decided to break the laws of the United States and enter the country illegally. Maybe their plight will discourage others from doing the same.

And I'm not going to get over a result while I'm still worrying about stockpiling food.

That seems like more of an issue with paranoia, then anything happening in reality.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#179

Post by tathougies »

detaro wrote: post #140
tathougies wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an EU or UK citizen, so I don't really know, but my initial assumption seems right: http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/eu-citizens-working-uk.htm... > Despite the vote to exit the EU, the UK will still remain a member of the EU until Article 50 negotiations have concluded. This means most citizens of countries in the European Union (EU), the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland have the right to live a…

> I mean... britain wouldn't be the ones policing the border, it would be turkey. You were clearly talking about the Turkish border in your previous comment. Entering Turkey doesn't make you an EU citizen, and the UK, not being part of Schengen and having no land border to the mainland, has lots of freedom to police it's own borders against non-EU nationals trying to enter from other EU countries. Turkish (then EU) c…

Ah, because the UK has its own internal border where they would verify citizenship. I forgot about that. So you're saying that, if an Iraqi national is allowed entry into a hypothetical Turkey in the EU -- even if Turkey were to have open borders with the rest of the EU -- that same person would have to go through UK border security separately still.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#180

Post by tathougies »

pjc50 wrote: post #145
tathougies wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an EU or UK citizen, so I don't really know, but my initial assumption seems right: http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/eu-citizens-working-uk.htm... > Despite the vote to exit the EU, the UK will still remain a member of the EU until Article 50 negotiations have concluded. This means most citizens of countries in the European Union (EU), the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland have the right to live a…

Turkish nationals would. You started out talking about Iraqis. Simply crossing the border into Turkey does not convey rights to enter the UK.

You're right. I forgot the UK has its own border with the EU and doesn't have open borders like other EU countries.
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