I disagree with the above post. Engineering offshore resources are cheap. If anything learn elements of good UI design. Design elements will cause you failure more often then coding.
Founders who can't code
51–60 of 117 posts
Re: Founders who can't code
#52FWIW Jason Fried, one of the original founders of 37signals, still doesn't know how to program ( http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2540-no-more-drive-by-teachin... ) but that obviously hasn't prevented the company from being a success. But then 37signals started off as a web design firm, and he had the good fortune to hire DHH.
I think Fried is sharp enough to identify talent and bullshit anyway, so he overcame the necessity of this advice through that and the fact that the above advice isn't entirely applicable to his case.
Nope this isn't accurate. It's true, but it's not accurate. You have to remember Fried is a web designer. So while he can't design, he has had experience working on things, launching things, talking to developers. And he's willing to put his money where his mouth is - he hired DHH to work on Basecamp, but only after he asked around, looking for help in learning to try to code it himself.
Re: Founders who can't code
#53I also got sick of feeling like just an ideas person, so I've been trying to follow this advice for the last 2 months. Any feedback would be much appreciated.
I started with Python, using a combo of MIT OCW, Learn Python the Hard Way, and How to Think Like a Computer Scientist. I then started going through an online course on dynamic websites that touches on HTML, CSS, PHP, XML, MySQL, Ajax, and Javascript. I've been using w3schools.com and the online manuals to learn more about these.
Does this make any sense? Should I try to learn more Python? If so, which resources should I use? Are these all worth my time? Am I missing anything?
Re: Founders who can't code
#54There's a big difference between the HN stereotype and "real" business people. REAL non-technical co-founders:
- Can raise funding and know funders well
- Have a massive network of people to tap into
- Can cold-call like no-one's business
- Know how to negotiate a deal to the point of paranoia
- Have deep domain experience and connections
- Make plans for the future, but can pivot on a dime
- Can talk enough tech to understand well beyond buzzwords
- Know how to keep themselves and the tech side accountable
- Let the tech side concentrate on what they do best
Re: Founders who can't code
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think Fried is sharp enough to identify talent and bullshit anyway, so he overcame the necessity of this advice through that and the fact that the above advice isn't entirely applicable to his case.
> I think Fried is sharp enough to identify talent and bullshit anyway, So what you're saying is ... learn to program, unless you are sharp enough to identify talent and 'bullshit' ... How would one identify this innate ability to know that they didn't need to actually learn how to program then? > the above advice isn't entirely applicable to his case. Care to explain why?
He's a pretty prolific writer, if you want to know more about him, just go read.
I don't buy into everything he's selling (cf. Rework), but I think there's stuff worth picking out of his brain.
I'm not his interlocutor nor his defender. Go read and decide for yourself.
Re: Founders who can't code
#56I also got sick of feeling like just an ideas person, so I've been trying to follow this advice for the last 2 months. Any feedback would be much appreciated. I started with Python, using a combo of MIT OCW, Learn Python the Hard Way, and How to Think Like a Computer Scientist. I then started going through an online course on dynamic websites that touches on HTML, CSS, PHP, XML, MySQL, Ajax, and Javascript. I've been…
I'm in the same boat, a little further down the river. Also started with MIT OCW and How to Think Like a Computer Scientist (in addition to the O'Reilly Python book).
Best thing for me was to escape the textbook-like examples (quadratic equations, rock paper scissors) and actually [attempt to] build real things. Once you have cursory Python knowledge, pick up "Practicel Django Projects" -- you'll build a working CMS by page 28 and feel really good about yourself. By the end of that book I was pleasantly surprised by how comfortable I was writing other programs, even if I am slow as hell and have a reference book open in my lap.
Re: Founders who can't code
#57There's a big difference between the HN stereotype and "real" business people. REAL non-technical co-founders: - Can raise funding and know funders well - Have a massive network of people to tap into - Can cold-call like no-one's business - Know how to negotiate a deal to the point of paranoia - Have deep domain experience and connections - Make plans for the future, but can pivot on a dime - Can talk enough tech to…
So well said upvoting just isn't enough. (And as soon as I added my point, your total dropped a point. Hmm.)
Re: Founders who can't code
#58Its a really fascinating tell, when programmers think that the solution to a given problem is that everyone become programmers.
Re: Founders who can't code
#59I disagree. Time is money. But which opportunity cost is greater? Do you have access to more time or do you have access to more money? If your primary skillset is in business, marketing, or sales, stick with that. Don't deviate from your specialization.
If you're applying for a job, then I agree.
If you're founding a startup, then a business guy needs to be able to clearly and quickly communicate with the developer(s).
Re: Founders who can't code
#60This isn't accurate. Most of this is true, but not for the reasons the thread author gave in his piece.
Why should a business/non-technical founder learn to code? The answer to this is simple: so that you have better ideas. Or, put another way: learning to code gives you the ability to implement your ideas. And implementing your ideas forces you to recognize, after some time, what works and what doesn't.
Hackers who start their own projects tend to have a framework in their heads for figuring out which ideas are good/may work, and which ideas won't. And they know this because they've failed enough times to figure out what isn't good for a project. Whereas most business 'wantrepreneurs' I know don't have that. They don't have that because they've never implemented anything, and so how do they know if their idea's a good one or not?
It's interesting to note that you don't have to learn to program to get this framework in your head. Learning to program is simply the most efficient (and cheapest!) way of doing it. Prominent counter-examples come to mind: Steve Jobs never really learned to code, but he grew up in the valley, and chose to mix around with hackers (Malcolm Gladwell, in his book Outliers points out that as a teenager Jobs approached the CEO of HP to ask for parts). So it's probably safe to assume Jobs absorbed such a framework by osmosis - spend enough time around people who make product and you begin to see for yourself what works, and what doesn't.
Jason Fried has also been brought up in this HN thread. And I suspect that it's no different for him: Fried is no programmer (though he's a web designer). But he was willing to pay people to implement his ideas. He paid DHH, after all, to build Basecamp. And that's another hack - you don't need programming ability to learn the framework - in this particular case all you need is implementation (which you can pay for). And if the project fails, you learn from it. Either way you gain things to add to your internal framework. (Derek Sivers also springs to mind - he hired contract programmers to build CDBaby, if I'm not mistaken).
Gaining that framework for sussing out ideas is likely to be the most important reason a non-technical founder should learn to code. Because it's going to help in so many little ways - you learn to detect technical bullshit, you gain a feel for what features to implement when and why, you attract better programming talent - because how else are you able to attract co-founders if you reek of incompetence and/or naivety?