Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 218 posts

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#91

Post by tathougies »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #39
morsma wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all these things (Brexit/Trump) wasn't planned to happen, so they're in need of arguments why a fair democratic vote should be invalid. This is what's happening.

What is a “fair democratic vote”? Is it still fair if it’s a simple majority? Is it still fair if official campaigns break the law? Is it still fair if constituent nations’ views are disregarded? That concept is a hard one to define and precisely why it’s a bad idea to have simple majority referendums on complex technical matters.

I mean in a direct democracy, a simple majority of a quorum of voters typically counts. Establishing arbitrary criteria for which votes are valid is not a democracy, especially when the various criteria are suddenly proposed after a controversial election.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#92

Post by pimmen »

tathougies wrote: post #82
RubenSandwich wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, quite a few of these are very xenophobic. Very much playing off of an anti Middle East sentiment. I'd specifically like to highlight these ads in this document: https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/cultu... . 2924.jpg 2966.jpg 2968.jpg

2966 and 2968 are about what the new borders of the UK would effectively be if Turkey is allowed to join the EU. Regardless of your thoughts on the Middle East, it is clear that there are dangerous people in Iraq. Given that the EU has open borders and markets (for the most part), isn't it a germaine discussion if that supranational entity wants to enlarge its borders to include ports of entry from a somewhat unstabl…

But then they're disingenuous about how the EU works. Member countries have to unanimously agree to new member countries, the UK could just veto the ascension of Turkey indefinitely.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#93

Post by untog »

fareesh wrote: post #86
clort wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Obama didn't break the law so his contribution is not under question I think your questions could be seen as whataboutism[0], but as an answer I do know somebody who was furious that Obama was "telling us what to do" and subsequently voted leave. I don't know anybody who voted remain but was obviously swayed by Obama. Sample size is small but thats what I know. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Justice is about equality before the law. It is unjust for one party to do something and be punished, while another party does something that is principly the same, and is not punished. Citing "whataboutism" does not make this go away, it is the essence of the argument. If Joe is disqualified from his hockey tournament for throwing his stick, but Mike receives an eye-roll from the same referee, it should not be criti…

The situation you just described is one where two people do the same thing, one is punished and one is not. Justifiable to question that.

The situation the OP was describing compared illegal, unreported campaign overspending with a foreign politician expressing an opinion. They're not in any way similar.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#94

Post by ABCLAW »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #22
kodablah wrote: post #3

Starting reading an article on some info handed over, ended up reading a politicized article. Can someone link me the source this article is using for the new news? I'm having a hard time finding it in the inline links of the text. EDIT: Via [0], I found the docs at [1]. Tech Crunch is a shameful, op-ed joke of a site. 0 - https://twitter.com/DamianCollins/status/1022437025667014656 1 - https://www.parliament.uk/docu…

Wow, quite a few of these are very xenophobic. Very much playing off of an anti Middle East sentiment. I'd specifically like to highlight these ads in this document: https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/cultu... . 2924.jpg 2966.jpg 2968.jpg

It's interesting to see how elements of a given political situation are extracted from their context, then dressed up emotively ("the EU is trying to take away our cuppa!") in order to herd people into supporting a position.

When you see ad after ad structured in this way, it really drives home what the playbook is.

I wonder how much similar content I've ingested without noticing.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#95

Post by googlryas »

Xylakant wrote: post #85
oh_sigh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't turkey joining the EU mean that Turkish citizens would have the right to freely emigrate to the UK?

That would be one of the consequences, yes. However, Turkey isn’t even remotely close to joining the EU and given the current political situation in Turkey I would not expect talks to move forward any time soon. So pretending there’s even a remote chance is disingenuous. It uses fears of foreigner not founded in reality. That’s pretty much the definition of xenophobic.

Which goes back to the original point. You don't need to be afraid of foreigners to not want them emigrating into your country en-masse(or, have the free option to should they be willing to take it). Just like you don't need to be afraid of strangers or anti-social to not want strangers to live in your house.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#96

Post by acheron »

derriz wrote: post #59
chubasco wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, this is definitely what it looks like to me.

Really? I suspect you have very little knowledge of the EU or how it works or its history. Here for example is an EU treaty, which took years to prepare and agree by the governments of all the countries but was abandoned after failing narrowly to pass referenda in France and the Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitu...

...and then was modified a tiny bit and passed anyway. That’s one of the most obvious examples of what they’re talking about.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#97

Post by dominotw »

maym86 wrote: post #73
dominotw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the second sentence starting with "In this case.."

You edited and added it after I had responded to your original post which didn't have the second sentence.

No I didn't.

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#98

Post by growlist »

derriz wrote: post #47

This isn't the only shenanigans surrounding the leave campaign. Here's another example of dodgy Leave Campaign funding - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-44624299 - where the DUP, a Northern Irish party, was given $600,000 to campaign for Leave by a shell company and spent most of it on advertisements in media that wasn't even available in Northern Ireland. But it's not surprising really. There has been a…

Why do you think these stories have traction in the UK? Do you think the UK has no legitimate grounds to question EU membership?

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#99

Post by tathougies »

pimmen wrote: post #92
tathougies wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2966 and 2968 are about what the new borders of the UK would effectively be if Turkey is allowed to join the EU. Regardless of your thoughts on the Middle East, it is clear that there are dangerous people in Iraq. Given that the EU has open borders and markets (for the most part), isn't it a germaine discussion if that supranational entity wants to enlarge its borders to include ports of entry from a somewhat unstabl…

But then they're disingenuous about how the EU works. Member countries have to unanimously agree to new member countries, the UK could just veto the ascension of Turkey indefinitely.

I didn't know that. I agree the ads are disingenuous; but they are not xenophobic. In my opinion, xenophobic is one of those labels that can be applied without evidence to stymie conversation in lieu of more compelling criticisms (like the one you present). Why resort to name calling if you have actual criticisms?

Re: Facebook finally hands over leave campaign Brexit ads

#100

Post by pimmen »

dillondoyle wrote: post #35
maym86 wrote: post #32

Can someone please explain the argument against passing laws forcing all adverts on advertising platforms like Facebook and Google to be searchable and transparent so we can see who is purchasing them, the parameters used for targeting the advert and what they are publishing? I can't see a downside for the majority of people.

Perhaps because 1st Amendment gives right to anonymous speech: https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity Perhaps because it gives established players a big leg up in terms of compliance costs (imagine being a small news site having to create this searchable system etc)

(This is the EU, not the US, but I'll concede that people having the right to anonymous speech is a good idea)

Your right to anonymous free speech does not mean Facebook is obligated to let you express that right, only that the government can't restrict your right to anonymous free speech. No reason you can't set up your own anonymous website.

Post reply on HN