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New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

forbes.com

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Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#41

Post by mavelikara »

masonic wrote: post #36
mavelikara wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a hiring manager at an SV tech company. I have interviewed and hired many engineers on H-1B visa. They all, in my understanding, posses the required " theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor". The number of such hires definitely fill the biggest conference rooms I have seen. Also, when I attend reputable tech conferences, many speakers I meet a…

How many of your interviewees were over age 45 and had full working status (citizens or permanent residents)?

About half of the candidates I have interviewed have full working status. About 10% of the candidates were, in my estimate, over 45 years.

Slightly over half my team have full working status, and about 1/5th of the team is over about 40 years.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#42

Post by __sr__ »

User23 wrote: post #39
__sr__ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was meant as a joke. While I agree that there are many incompetent people who have abused H1B and other such systems, I prefer to judge people on their individual merits and avoid stereotyping. I have worked with both the extremes. See my longer response to the OP

I've never worked with a native employee with this particular defect for any appreciable length of time. They always get let go. The H-1Bs however, in my experience, don't. Why might that be?

> The H-1Bs however, in my experience, don't. Why might that be?

That is strange. In my experience, H1Bs are let go as quickly as natives if they are not competent. Of course, it could simply be a matter of the type of companies we have worked with. Again, see my (longer) response to the OP. I have mostly worked with Type 1 people I described there and have been fortunate enough to mostly avoid the Type 2. That said, I’ve worked with both extremes.

EDIT: When I say I’ve worked with both the extremes, I mean I have worked with both highly skilled and totally incompetent foreigners as well as natives.

EDIT 2: I’ve also worked with a third category — highly intelligent people (PhD level) who are more interested in spreading their intelligence (i.e. showing off) than getting actual work done. Unfortunately, I haven’t met the other extreme in this case. :-)

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#43

Post by gaius »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #40
gaius wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap If there was genuinely a shortage of tech workers there would be no ageism (or any other sort of -ism) nor would there be these elaborate multi-day hoop-jumping interviews.

Why? There is a legitimate reason for having a high hiring bar. Obviously this doesn’t make ageism or discrimination acceptable of course.

There is a legitimate reason for having a high hiring bar.

The “bar” is not representative at all of the nature of the work is why. It’s artificially high in order to eliminate a glut of candidates early in the process.

I remember when there was a genuine shortage of tech workers - the dotcom boom. Hiring and compensation reflected that there was high demand and competition to hire. Outside of a very few niches now, the economics (law of supply and demand) simply don’t show it.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#44

Post by dmode »

__sr__ wrote: post #34

Broadly speaking, there are two types of H1B applicants[1]: 1. Applicants being hired directly by US companies like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc. These applicants have either worked for a while at one of their offshore subsidiaries or were hired directly after a thorough interview process. They are typically paid on par with their US counterparts. These applicants are usually very good at what they do — regardless o…

Both me and my wife fall in category 1, but were unceremoniously denied H1 visa extensions this year. Both of us have Master's degree in the US. As you would note from other comments in this thread, there is a lot of misunderstanding about H1B among Americans. For most people H1B = cheap, which is grossly incorrect

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#45

Post by mavelikara »

whath1breal wrote: post #31
mavelikara wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me repeat the question I asked above - why is a good developer not considered to posses "specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor"?.

I don't think the violations of H1-b law are coming from the clause you quoted. It's coming from the parts about: 1) the employer must try to hire Americans first for the job and needs to be able to show that they haven't been able to hire Americans for the job 2) if the employer laid off people in essentially similar jobs recently before or after the H1-b application, the application is not supposed to go through 3)…

My understanding is that in your list:

#1 - the employer must try to hire Americans first for the job - is not true. The employer need to only attest that the employment of H-1B non-immigrants does not adversely affect working conditions of workers similarly employed.

#2 - if the employer laid off people in essentially similar jobs recently before or after the H1-b application, the application is not supposed to go through - is also not true. Although, it is true that H-1Bs cannot be used to break a strike, lockout etc.

#3 - they need to pay the H1-Bs the same wage as similar non-H1-b people at the company, or the prevailing wage of the area (whichever is greater) - is true

I think you are confusing the employment-based green card with an H-1B visa (the employer must attest to #1 and #2 to apply for EB green cards).

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Employer_attestation...

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#46

Post by dmode »

gaius wrote: post #19
GauntletWizard wrote: post #3

Somehow, I don't see this article getting a lot of traction here on HN. I'm certain most of us have good friends and colleagues here in the US on an H1B Visa; I'm equally certain most of us have seen and experienced the abuse of the system. H1B's stated purpose is "Specialty Occupation"s. A lot of these Visas are being used to bring in workers for very generic IT helpdesk jobs. There's still many that are granted for…

whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap If there was genuinely a shortage of tech workers there would be no ageism (or any other sort of -ism) nor would there be these elaborate multi-day hoop-jumping interviews.

If there was such an abundance of talent, why does Google pay $125k for entry level SW jobs ? And why is SW engineering such a highly paid position ?

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#47

Post by __sr__ »

dmode wrote: post #44
__sr__ wrote: post #34

Broadly speaking, there are two types of H1B applicants[1]: 1. Applicants being hired directly by US companies like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc. These applicants have either worked for a while at one of their offshore subsidiaries or were hired directly after a thorough interview process. They are typically paid on par with their US counterparts. These applicants are usually very good at what they do — regardless o…

Both me and my wife fall in category 1, but were unceremoniously denied H1 visa extensions this year. Both of us have Master's degree in the US. As you would note from other comments in this thread, there is a lot of misunderstanding about H1B among Americans. For most people H1B = cheap, which is grossly incorrect

> For most people H1B = cheap, which is grossly incorrect

>> In any case, treating the two categories as one is probably not a great idea.

That is exactly what I said.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#48

Post by mavelikara »

User23 wrote: post #39
__sr__ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was meant as a joke. While I agree that there are many incompetent people who have abused H1B and other such systems, I prefer to judge people on their individual merits and avoid stereotyping. I have worked with both the extremes. See my longer response to the OP

I've never worked with a native employee with this particular defect for any appreciable length of time. They always get let go. The H-1Bs however, in my experience, don't. Why might that be?

> I've never worked with a native employee with this particular defect for any appreciable length of time

Spending an evening reading stories reported at thedailywtf.com will help dispel this.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#49

Post by [deleted] »

__sr__ wrote: post #42
User23 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked with a native employee with this particular defect for any appreciable length of time. They always get let go. The H-1Bs however, in my experience, don't. Why might that be?

> The H-1Bs however, in my experience, don't. Why might that be? That is strange. In my experience, H1Bs are let go as quickly as natives if they are not competent. Of course, it could simply be a matter of the type of companies we have worked with. Again, see my (longer) response to the OP. I have mostly worked with Type 1 people I described there and have been fortunate enough to mostly avoid the Type 2. That said,…

[deleted]

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#50

Post by gaius »

dmode wrote: post #46
gaius wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap If there was genuinely a shortage of tech workers there would be no ageism (or any other sort of -ism) nor would there be these elaborate multi-day hoop-jumping interviews.

If there was such an abundance of talent, why does Google pay $125k for entry level SW jobs ? And why is SW engineering such a highly paid position ?

Outside of a handful of companies in Silly Valley tech is just another office job and less well paid than law, accounting, MBAs and most other professionals. No one ever says there’s a desperate shortage of corporate lawyers and we need special visas to import more!
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