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New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

forbes.com

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Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#11

Post by User23 »

grad_ml wrote: post #5

From the article a)approximately 80% of full-time graduate students in computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are international students. b)Economists Giovanni Peri, Kevin Shih and Chad Sparber notes “A 1 percentage point increase in the foreign STEM share of a city’s total employment increased the wage growth of native college-educated labor by about 7–8 percentage points and the wage growt…

So in the limit case where 100% of the STEM employment is foreign the average wages of native workers will be 220% higher than they are now? What mechanism will achieve this remarkable result?

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#12

Post by bigcostooge »

mavelikara wrote: post #7
User23 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the H-1B statutes were enforced as written then the total number of applicants accepted each year would comfortably fit in a large conference room.

Please explain why you think so.

I’m not the poster, but I’ve worked with literally hundreds of H1B workers directly, and while some were ~decent developers, the majority were not.

Even the decent developers had no special skills that would qualify them for an H1b visa, however.

With a 0% rate of qualified H1b recipients in my own experience, I can imagine that the “conference room” statement would be true.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#13

Post by mavelikara »

bigcostooge wrote: post #12
mavelikara wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain why you think so.

I’m not the poster, but I’ve worked with literally hundreds of H1B workers directly, and while some were ~decent developers, the majority were not. Even the decent developers had no special skills that would qualify them for an H1b visa, however. With a 0% rate of qualified H1b recipients in my own experience, I can imagine that the “conference room” statement would be true.

I am a hiring manager at an SV tech company. I have interviewed and hired many engineers on H-1B visa. They all, in my understanding, posses the required " theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor". The number of such hires definitely fill the biggest conference rooms I have seen. Also, when I attend reputable tech conferences, many speakers I meet are on H-1B.

That being my experience, I don't think the claim made by OP is true. Evidently, we have different understanding of what constitutes specialized skills. Why is a good developer not considered to posses "specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor"?

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#14

Post by megaman22 »

mavelikara wrote: post #13
bigcostooge wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not the poster, but I’ve worked with literally hundreds of H1B workers directly, and while some were ~decent developers, the majority were not. Even the decent developers had no special skills that would qualify them for an H1b visa, however. With a 0% rate of qualified H1b recipients in my own experience, I can imagine that the “conference room” statement would be true.

I am a hiring manager at an SV tech company. I have interviewed and hired many engineers on H-1B visa. They all, in my understanding, posses the required " theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor". The number of such hires definitely fill the biggest conference rooms I have seen. Also, when I attend reputable tech conferences, many speakers I meet a…

Because that should be table-stakes for the profession.

And too many H1-Bs are just awful. I don't necessarily blame them individually, but it's a perverse suboptimal system.

If I ever run my own business, I'm going to put a 300-800% price hike on any work where I have to interface with Tata or Cognizant, or ATT Global Services, or the other kinds of consulting bodyshops that currently employ the vast majority of H1-Bs. At least for non-repeat business. Find a decent team and giving them normal rates or better would make sense, but there are others you wouldn't touch with a thirty foot pole made of rolled hundred dollar bills.

It is just not worth the headache dealing with that caliber of people, and the cultural impedance. Unless they are willing to pay through the nose.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#15

Post by dragonwriter »

grad_ml wrote: post #5

From the article a)approximately 80% of full-time graduate students in computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are international students. b)Economists Giovanni Peri, Kevin Shih and Chad Sparber notes “A 1 percentage point increase in the foreign STEM share of a city’s total employment increased the wage growth of native college-educated labor by about 7–8 percentage points and the wage growt…

> b)Economists Giovanni Peri, Kevin Shih and Chad Sparber notes “A 1 percentage point increase in the foreign STEM share of a city’s total employment increased the wage growth of native college-educated labor by about 7–8 percentage points and the wage growth of non-college-educated natives by 3–4 percentage points.”

I don't doubt this correlation, but I do doubt that the relationship is causal in the direction suggested. More likely higher less supply of naive work to meet the needs of local industry -> both higher native wages and greater effort toward and eligibility for visa sponsorship for foreign workers.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#16

Post by tananaev »

My understanding was that all (or most) applications are processed in 4th quarter of a fiscal year. That's because lottery is done in April (with results in May/June). So, comparing quarters of the same year make zero sense to me. Am I missing or misunderstanding something?

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#17

Post by mavelikara »

megaman22 wrote: post #14
mavelikara wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a hiring manager at an SV tech company. I have interviewed and hired many engineers on H-1B visa. They all, in my understanding, posses the required " theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor". The number of such hires definitely fill the biggest conference rooms I have seen. Also, when I attend reputable tech conferences, many speakers I meet a…

Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. And too many H1-Bs are just awful. I don't necessarily blame them individually, but it's a perverse suboptimal system. If I ever run my own business, I'm going to put a 300-800% price hike on any work where I have to interface with Tata or Cognizant, or ATT Global Services, or the other kinds of consulting bodyshops that currently employ the vast majority of H1-…

> Because that should be table-stakes for the profession.

By your definition, most of the 736 players who played in FIFA 2018 world cup few weeks ago do not posses any special athletic skills - they merely posses skills that are table-stakes for their profession. Yet, most reasonable people would not hesitate to call those players elite athletes.

What I am trying to point out is that H-1B is not about finding that outstanding developer. These are people who have a high level of skill in a specialized occupation.

Edit: you expanded on you original one-liner with anecdote. I am quoting the one-liner I was reponding to here.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#18

Post by megaman22 »

mavelikara wrote: post #17
megaman22 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. And too many H1-Bs are just awful. I don't necessarily blame them individually, but it's a perverse suboptimal system. If I ever run my own business, I'm going to put a 300-800% price hike on any work where I have to interface with Tata or Cognizant, or ATT Global Services, or the other kinds of consulting bodyshops that currently employ the vast majority of H1-…

> Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. By your definition, most of the 736 players who played in FIFA 2018 world cup few weeks ago do not posses any special athletic skills - they merely posses skills that are table-stakes for their profession. Yet, most reasonable people would not hesitate to call those players elite athletes. What I am trying to point out is that H-1B is not about finding that ou…

Personally, I'm of the opinion that educated, competent workers in useful fields are exactly the kind of people you would want to have immigrate and become permanent citizens. So the whole H1-B charade is rather stupid from that perspective- if they are really effective workers that cannot be found domestically, why put them into a shitty indentured servitude?

You deal with too many sub-par people that tick a certain box, and your estimation of people that tick that box naturally goes down. There are very good people that are chained at companies with H1-B visas, but it is hard to battle what Bayes' Theorem tells you.

Re: New Evidence USCIS Policies Increased Denials Of H-1B Visas

#19

Post by gaius »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #3

Somehow, I don't see this article getting a lot of traction here on HN. I'm certain most of us have good friends and colleagues here in the US on an H1B Visa; I'm equally certain most of us have seen and experienced the abuse of the system. H1B's stated purpose is "Specialty Occupation"s. A lot of these Visas are being used to bring in workers for very generic IT helpdesk jobs. There's still many that are granted for…

whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap

If there was genuinely a shortage of tech workers there would be no ageism (or any other sort of -ism) nor would there be these elaborate multi-day hoop-jumping interviews.

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