Role-playing game theory
11–20 of 44 posts
Re: Role-playing game theory
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Think of them more as a variation of literary criticism. I can't prove with p<.05 that my review of _Schoolhouse Rock_ is 'correct', either.
But can't you verify a good theory of RPG by creating a novel game that will be much appreciated or fixing some existing games making them more interesting? Like how music theory improved musicians' work and resulted in a better music, musician communication and even got used for creative AIs while music is very subjective too?
Re: Role-playing game theory
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
But can't you verify a good theory of RPG by creating a novel game that will be much appreciated or fixing some existing games making them more interesting? Like how music theory improved musicians' work and resulted in a better music, musician communication and even got used for creative AIs while music is very subjective too?
"Literary theory," as it is called, is actually not theory. It's the production of commentaries that are designed to make you say, "ah, yes." In other words it's a derivative art form like collage or remixing. You can tell the difference because there is no way to tell if a paper is right or not other than by deciding if it sounds right to you, which is no less subjective than anything else in art. In contrast, music…
Re: Role-playing game theory
#14I see all those hypotheses but are those verifiable? Did they result in some solid explanations that allowed useful predictions to be made? Or do they play "my idea is better" game? (edit: yeah, silently downvote people asking questions... people shouldn't ask things. Or is it some sore I stepped on unknowingly?)
So Ron Edwards, who came up with the GNS system, realized that the there were lots of games about winning, and lots of games about simulations, but very few games about drama/stories. He published his ideas wide and far on the internet, made some games, and ran a very influential forum, "the forge". Along with a later spin off forum, story-games.com, a new breed of game designers showed up that focused much more on narratives and the dramatic moment.
Some examples of these cult story games are The Burning Wheel, Dogs in the Vineyard, FIASCO, Apocalypse World, Mouse Guard, and Dungeon World. These started out fairly hardcore, with but had narrative elements built into the mechanics the game instead of an afterthought. As time went on, and with lots of experimentation, people found out just how the light you could go on the rules and keep the focus on the mechanics that drive the story.
The much praised D&D 5th edition, that renewed the hobby and got kids back into it, brings in many of the elements honed out in the cult fringe of story games.
So yeah, I think at least the GNS theory has had a major effect on the RPG gaming world.
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If you want to get a taste of these games, take a look at the Apocalypse World.
Here's an example of a "move", that a player can do to bring the dice into a story:
"DO SOMETHING UNDER FIRE When you do something under fire, or dig in to endure fire, roll+cool. On a 10+, you do it. On a 7–9, you finch, hesitate, or stall: the MC can offer you a worse outcome, a hard bargain, or an ugly choice. On a miss, be prepared for the worst."
Essentially the rules prioritize putting interesting people in bad situations and seeing them make hard choices. It's the distilled essence of drama.
The player rule book is here: http://apocalypse-world.com/ApocalypseWorldBasicRefbook2ndEd.... I'd recommend going about halfway in first and read the "basic moves", then scroll up to 1/3 of the way in, and read a character's sheet.
Re: Role-playing game theory
#15This made me wonder: what parts of our pop culture will be studied as rigorously as historical literature? Where will RPGs and video games fit in? Will some odd history professor in 2100 awkwardly DM a game for bored future college student equivalents?
Re: Role-playing game theory
#16This made me wonder: what parts of our pop culture will be studied as rigorously as historical literature? Where will RPGs and video games fit in? Will some odd history professor in 2100 awkwardly DM a game for bored future college student equivalents?
One challenge of RPGs producing 'high' art, similar to literature, is that you need a talented, skilled artist. The art of literature can be reproduced and consumed on a large scale: James Joyce writes a book and everyone reads it. Most art that we experience is produced by people with 1-in-10,000 ability (as a guess; that would be 32,000 Americans) that have honed their ability throughout their lives.
In RPGs, the artists are some people you know who play occasionally. They aren't 1-in-10,000 (unless you are very lucky, and then the rest of the group is not), and they don't hone their skills as if it is a profession.
Perhaps RPGs are more like folk art, which is not an insult; folk art produces some wonderful works.
It's hard to imagine RPGs rising higher: Given the structure of them - they require personal interaction and there's way to provide no mass reproduction and consumption of the great artists - it would be hard to make a living doing them or to have your work seen, which means nobody will spend their lives honing the skills (and you need not just one person, but a group of DMs and players to create the art). People work all their lives to be great painters, great guitar players, etc.; will anyone work that hard to be a DM? Will they meet a group of similarly committed players and form a 'band'? Who will pay them? Who will ever see them? Perhaps people will watch a highly skilled group play, but for the viewers that's passive consumption - the opposite of what makes RPGs creative and artistic.
OTOH, I'd certainly pay to play with a a brilliant artist (who can master DM'ing). What an experience!
Re: Role-playing game theory
#17I see all those hypotheses but are those verifiable? Did they result in some solid explanations that allowed useful predictions to be made? Or do they play "my idea is better" game? (edit: yeah, silently downvote people asking questions... people shouldn't ask things. Or is it some sore I stepped on unknowingly?)
They are not scientific theories. They are akin to the schools of thought in literary theory, and film theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_theory#Schools
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_theory#Specific_theories_...
Re: Role-playing game theory
#18This made me wonder: what parts of our pop culture will be studied as rigorously as historical literature? Where will RPGs and video games fit in? Will some odd history professor in 2100 awkwardly DM a game for bored future college student equivalents?
I love the idea of RPGs and have wondered about them as art. Thinking about your comment: One challenge of RPGs producing 'high' art, similar to literature, is that you need a talented, skilled artist. The art of literature can be reproduced and consumed on a large scale: James Joyce writes a book and everyone reads it. Most art that we experience is produced by people with 1-in-10,000 ability (as a guess; that would…
The two most promenant ones I’m aware of are The Adventure Zone and Critical Role. The first leans heavily on family, personality, and humor; the second leans heavily on structure, characterization, and voice acting (all the players are pro voice actors).
It definitely is a nascent art form, and the first 5-10 episodes of both are somewhat rough, but recent episodes have gotten quite professional.
Personally, my favorite is The Adventure Zone. The first arc, “Here There Be Gerblins,” is clearly pretty raw, but the series gets so much better by the end.
Related: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/9/17549808/actual-play-critic...
Re: Role-playing game theory
#19Re: Role-playing game theory
#20I see all those hypotheses but are those verifiable? Did they result in some solid explanations that allowed useful predictions to be made? Or do they play "my idea is better" game? (edit: yeah, silently downvote people asking questions... people shouldn't ask things. Or is it some sore I stepped on unknowingly?)
> I see all those hypotheses but are those verifiable? They are not scientific theories. They are akin to the schools of thought in literary theory, and film theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_theory#Schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_theory#Specific_theories_...