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Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#361

Post by ivm »

throwawaymath wrote: post #326
pc86 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An oncologist wishing more money was spent on cancer? In other news, water is wet. First of all, the optimal place for me to spend my money is not necessarily the optimal place for someone else to spend theirs. We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX? Secondly, there is no universal "cancer" that we can fight. There are hundreds of…

> We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX? I would have preferred that. EDIT: Sure, downvote me for honestly answering a question. I don't really care about colonizing space right now, I care about a lot of other problems here on Earth. Perhaps you think that's short sighted, but I'd rather Musk have started another Simons Foundatio…

Hey, you are not alone, I would prefer solving Earth's problems too. The downvotes for simply having another vision of a better future are silly.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#362

Post by mercutio2 »

Aloisius wrote: post #344
adventured wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're underestimating the cost of US healthcare per capita by an extreme amount. Universal healthcare would cost a minimum of $3.6 trillion (that's an ideal scenario where the US gets its per capita spending down to other high spending nations), and a more likely ~$4.5 trillion. Higher education for all would cost at least $600 billion (close to the existing spending for all post secondary institutions annually), mo…

> Universal healthcare would cost a minimum of $3.6 trillion (that's an ideal scenario where the US gets its per capita spending down to other high spending nations) Mmm. No. In 2016, government spending on healthcare would have been lowered by $435 billion and covered every single American if we somehow had transplanted Canada's healthcare system and costs to the US. Total healthcare spending (including co-pay and w…

“If we somehow transplanted Canada’s healthcare system and costs”

Get back to me when you’ve convinced US healthcare workers to take a 30-50% pay cut. Until then, US healthcare will remain more expensive than developed countries that don’t routinely compensate doctors and nurses at the level we do.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#363

Post by dgzl »

ryanmercer wrote: post #36
liberte82 wrote: post #11

Why don't we send a rover to some of these interesting places? It seems like we're constantly making fascinating finds on Mars, then send rovers to the middle of a random rocky desert.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

> If we could get the top 5 GDP nations to contribute 1% of their GDP to a proper global space program we'd have 400+ billion dollars a year

You know what's more likely than getting the top 5 GDP nations to donate 1% to a collaborative space program? Obtaining peace on Earth, because that's exactly what you'll need to reach your goal.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#364

Post by mercutio2 »

yonkshi wrote: post #298
adventured wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're underestimating the cost of US healthcare per capita by an extreme amount. Universal healthcare would cost a minimum of $3.6 trillion (that's an ideal scenario where the US gets its per capita spending down to other high spending nations), and a more likely ~$4.5 trillion. Higher education for all would cost at least $600 billion (close to the existing spending for all post secondary institutions annually), mo…

Would you please provide some sources on all your numbers? those are some astronomical numbers and are essential in validating your point. Edit: I did some of my own research, UHC take 8~11% GDP in other countries. That would put us around 1.8 trillion (2016 GDP). Much less than $3.5 trillion you claimed. Plus, US is already spending 16% of GDP (~3 trillion) on health care, despite not having universal healthcare. 11…

Universal health care isn’t magic pixie dust.

The way UHC costs less is by paying doctors and nurses less. Negotiating lower pharmaceutical rates and reducing billing costs is nice and all, but it’s tiny compared to labor costs.

It turns out, doctors and nurses are very popular, and they vote their economic interest. Good luck getting UHC in the US that pays them less.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#365

Post by ChuckMcM »

jpmoyn wrote: post #167
ChuckMcM wrote: post #52

Nice. An "easier" source of water is a huge bonus for the first people landing no Mars.

Haha that was your first thought?

I know right? There is so much literature and speculation on what it will take to live on Mars that "source of liquid water in quantity" is a greatly simplifying step that knocks a dozen different failure scenarios off the decision tree. I'm guessing that people aren't seeing how big a deal this is for future colonists.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#366

Post by i_made_a_booboo »

ryanmercer wrote: post #36
liberte82 wrote: post #11

Why don't we send a rover to some of these interesting places? It seems like we're constantly making fascinating finds on Mars, then send rovers to the middle of a random rocky desert.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

Why don't they just put you in charge.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#367

Post by PinkMilkshake »

remote_phone wrote: post #43
ryanmercer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

I was talking to an oncologist yesterday. Her biggest frustration is that Silicon Valley billionaires are spending billions upon billions to send things to space, when there are serious problems on Earth that could be fought, most importantly cancer. It’s hard to argue with her. $400B/yr would fund a lot of research that would benefit humanity a lot better than a coordinated mission to Mars, even though it would be v…

I think it's fairly straightforward to make a argument against what she said.

Western society worked out ages ago that it's best just to leave individuals to pursue what they find valuable. It may not be the most efficient system, but it works.

Anything other than that implies that it's possible for everyone to have (more likely to be forced to have) the same set of values, and that we can all agree on how to order human pursuits from most beneficial to least beneficial. We already know that kind of collectivist approach fails every time.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#368

Post by namuol »

remote_phone wrote: post #43
ryanmercer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

I was talking to an oncologist yesterday. Her biggest frustration is that Silicon Valley billionaires are spending billions upon billions to send things to space, when there are serious problems on Earth that could be fought, most importantly cancer. It’s hard to argue with her. $400B/yr would fund a lot of research that would benefit humanity a lot better than a coordinated mission to Mars, even though it would be v…

> most importantly cancer

What about starvation, genocide, growing inequality, or the looming Alzheimer's epidemic? Where should we put the most money, and when?

Scientific/Technological R&D is the ONE thing that can offer solutions to all of these problems, even if the research isn't directly related to them.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#369

Post by arkis22 »

qaq wrote: post #257
clarkmoody wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would blame the size of the financial services sector on the Fed and inflationary money. I don't see what military power has to do with it? What's the size of the financial sector of Luxembourg or Switzerland?

Well name 1 other country that cab increase money supply the way FED does yet maintains the status of world's reserve currency? Luxembourg nobody cares on a global scale. Switzerland has extremely competent military and they are def. not in a position to manipulate the currency the way FED does and remain a viable financial center.

Switzerland has been manipulating their currency for almost a decade now. The central bank has been consistently selling reserves to keep their currency low.

The USD is the world's reserve currency because we have a balance of being the largest economy with a fair rule of law, lots of real estate, 50 competing states, natural resources, and the manufacturing expertise that means if anything goes super wrong we're the best place to be.

Luxembourg and Switzerland also have a history of being tax havens.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#370

Post by forapurpose »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #281
forapurpose wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have already spent $500B on cancer research[1] and it hasn't cured That's a pretty absolutist statement. We've spent more preventing murder, but murder still happens. We have developed many treatments for cancer that have added many quality life years for millions of people.

I agree, both that it is absolutist and that we've spent more on preventing murder. What is the common thread to both of these absolutist comments? Both cancer and murder are systems in crisis, not 'things' in their own right. They have the same questions 1a) What causes a cell to decide live forever (metastasize)? 1b) What causes a person to decide that killing another person is the solution to some problem? 2a) How…

> There is no drug, no treatment, that will 'cure' cancer until we understand exactly what is going on in a cell that knocks it out of line. ... Everything we do on these two fronts (cancer, and murder) are delaying actions to minimize their impact on the greater whole.

So what? Even if everything you say is true, the outcome of the research is possibly hundreds of millions of additional quality life years.

And there are many treatments that 'cure' cancer. Many people have cancer, are treated, and never have it again. Many have it, are treated, and live much longer than they otherwise would have. I'm not sure what you are saying, or why research that saves and prolongs lives has to meet some other standard (and what is that standard?).

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