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The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

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Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#51

Post by eru »

Disparity wrote: post #20
pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

What PG says is 100% true. I say this having done a startup in the space. In a nut shell, you need roughly $1M upfront for legal fees to negotiate with the big four record labels (for an interactive service, not a non-interactive service like Pandora).

Thanks for the details.

I guess I understand what you mean. Though I wouldn't use the words interactive/non-interactive. Pandora is quite interactive in a UI sense, even though you can't select tracks directly.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#52

Post by emehrkay »

Disparity wrote: post #20
pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

What PG says is 100% true. I say this having done a startup in the space. In a nut shell, you need roughly $1M upfront for legal fees to negotiate with the big four record labels (for an interactive service, not a non-interactive service like Pandora).

Can you define interactive and non-interactive for me?

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#53

Post by eru »

mitjak wrote: post #21
henrikschroder wrote: post #8

Google music. Who cares? Oh right, you guys don't have Spotify. I don't know anyone that has it that bothers with iTunes or actually buying music anymore. Get the free version, and get any music anytime and the occasional ad. Pay a few bucks a month, and you get any music anytime with no ads.

Spotify is great as long as you don't step out of the narrow scope of the music offered. Try finding anything released <6 months ago and report back. rdio and MOG are even worse in that respect. Grooveshark is the only service that has a decent though a Kazaa-like chaotic catalogue.

Pandora has been quite nice. Especially since they added some classical music. They don't have a lot of, say, German music, yet, though.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#54

Post by icegreentea »

thought_alarm wrote: post #29
digitallogic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then allow me to make your day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_iPod_managers

Yes, trying out other music managers is a very good way to come to appreciate iTunes and how it works. I encourage everyone who thinks they're unhappy with iTunes to check out these other applications.

The Winamp iPod manager wasn't so bad. Sure, there was no drag and drop, but I always kept dropping in the wrong place anyways. The biggest problem was how it handled certain aspects of tags and labelling different from iTunes. It really wasn't a problem if all you ever used was Winamp, but if you started with iTunes, and switched to Winamp, it would just reorder your music (the most obvious example being 0-9 coming before/after a-z), and piss you off.

Today, I use foobar to play my music. And I keep iTunes around to load my iPod. Cause as stupidly annoying as iTunes is, foobar gets it worse.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#56

Post by pg »

milkshakes wrote: post #44
pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

There's plenty of startups in the music space that don't directly deliver music to listeners, what about those?

It's hard to say exactly where the line is that you can't cross without getting killed. Industry experts know more precisely. I suspect the fatal combination is (a) a music focused startup that (b) touches label music and (c) makes money.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#57

Post by 66-75-63-6b »

This was a foregone conclusion when the labels set this policy several years ago. Clearly this former president of Grokster is still telling the same story.

An interesting bit of insider info I have - a relative of mine is a young Sony VP. Apparently their senior executive still wants their digital people to explain things in terms of 8 tracks and tapes. No exaggeration.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#58

Post by protomyth »

I still don't get how an artist actually makes money on a streaming service. It seems pretty good for the labels, but not for the artists. I know people say artist should make their money off other things, but their are some good artists who do poorly in a concert venue.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#59

Post by taylorlb »

kiba wrote: post #9
agentultra wrote: post #7

The point about the labels doing it to themselves is probably only half the story. The other half is the culturally ingrained phenomena of "the dream." Many artists jamming in their basements dream of "signing," and expect a big advance, tours, radio play, and all of that old-world stuff. Many today of course realize that there's the Internet and they can afford to distribute their work for pennies and market to thei…

The big labels don't feel like changing, not that they cannot change. They are a bunch of human beings at all. Aren't human beings flexible enough to thrive anywhere on earth? Yet, some humans choose to die rather than adapt. The labels don't want to deal with the changing business. So they rather die.

It's not so much that they don't want to "deal" with the changing business, it's that there aren't proper incentives in place for the people who run the companies.

Chances are, if you run a major music rights company, you get paid a large sum of money and the financial incentives are structured in such a way that it's in your best interest to simply keep the ship sailing rather than make any drastic changes. Why take risks when you can keep getting your 7 figure check? If you tried to stop the bleeding all at once, you'd most likely be shown the door.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#60

Post by pg »

pstinnett wrote: post #48
pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

Just curious: Do you think popular music as a whole is a hopeless area or specifically companies that are looking to stream music? I agree in regards toward streaming music services, but there are a lot of startups focusing on other areas of music that seem to be successful: - http://bandcamp.com/ - http://limitedpressing.com - http://songkick.com/

As of this writing it seems to be ok so long as you don't touch the music files or the lyrics.
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