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Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

bbc.co.uk

321–330 of 495 posts

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, given the last asteroid induced extinction event, the south of France, the midwest US, and the bottom of the ocean would still have been more habitable than Mars.

Not for the ones that experienced it first hand.

Our ancestors got through it, somehow.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

I was talking to an oncologist yesterday. Her biggest frustration is that Silicon Valley billionaires are spending billions upon billions to send things to space, when there are serious problems on Earth that could be fought, most importantly cancer. It’s hard to argue with her. $400B/yr would fund a lot of research that would benefit humanity a lot better than a coordinated mission to Mars, even though it would be v…

We already have problem with over-population. Cure for cancer will make this problem worse. To solve this problem, we need to expand.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#323

Per the Great Filter[0], this is really bad news, right? [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter

No, whatever happened on Mars has to do with issues of planetary geology and natural climate change that aren't issues for us. i.e. it's a term in the Fermi equation that doesn't apply to us anymore.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#324
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

> A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. So could a better rover and rovers are getting better quickly. And you could send hundreds of rovers for the cost of a manned mission.

Curiosity cost $2.5 billion. The next generation rover, Mars 2020, is based on the same design. Where is this technological leap in rover technology?

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#325
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just decrease the insane US defense budget.

Can't project global power without 600 billion and god knows how much black budget money. If anything the need to project influence is rising again in a way we haven't seen since the height of the soviet union. despite the rhetoric being thrown at other NATO members right now i fully expect the budget to swell again towards 700-750 over the next two terms

>god knows how much black budget money.

Lots of people besides God know. It's 'black' because it's not specifically allocated in unclassified breakdowns. The total amount (per agency) is included in the appropriations bill.

[0] $52.6 billion in 2013 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/black-...

[1] $81.1 billion requested in 2018 https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/28/trump-admin...

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#326
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking to an oncologist yesterday. Her biggest frustration is that Silicon Valley billionaires are spending billions upon billions to send things to space, when there are serious problems on Earth that could be fought, most importantly cancer. It’s hard to argue with her. $400B/yr would fund a lot of research that would benefit humanity a lot better than a coordinated mission to Mars, even though it would be v…

An oncologist wishing more money was spent on cancer? In other news, water is wet. First of all, the optimal place for me to spend my money is not necessarily the optimal place for someone else to spend theirs. We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX? Secondly, there is no universal "cancer" that we can fight. There are hundreds of…

> We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX?

I would have preferred that.

EDIT: Sure, downvote me for honestly answering a question. I don't really care about colonizing space right now, I care about a lot of other problems here on Earth. Perhaps you think that's short sighted, but I'd rather Musk have started another Simons Foundation or DESRES than SpaceX. More power to him, and I don't bear him any enmity, but I don't respect the decision.

We don't need to leave the planet to solve our current problems with overpopulation or climate change. More importantly, the reality is that the things that will kill anyone reading this are not going to be solved by going to Mars.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have already spent $500B on cancer research[1] and it hasn't cured That's a pretty absolutist statement. We've spent more preventing murder, but murder still happens. We have developed many treatments for cancer that have added many quality life years for millions of people.

I agree, both that it is absolutist and that we've spent more on preventing murder. What is the common thread to both of these absolutist comments? Both cancer and murder are systems in crisis, not 'things' in their own right. They have the same questions 1a) What causes a cell to decide live forever (metastasize)? 1b) What causes a person to decide that killing another person is the solution to some problem? 2a) How…

Yes, cancer and murder are duals. Do you think there may be a way to convert between measures against either?

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of reasons. The first is that to make a mission to Mars cost effective, we have to wait about 18 months for Earth and Mars to line up in the right positions, otherwise it costs too much in rocket fuel to be worthwhile. The second is that the missions lag behind the discoveries - it's much easier to analyze pictures and spectographs than it is to design a mission, secure funding for it, and then do it. Sendin…

We have a proven design in Spirit/Opportunity. There should be an assembly line cranking them out.

The design they're sticking with is instead Curiosity; the Mars 2020 rover is basically an update of that design with different instruments, better navigation software, upgrades to parts that specifically took a lot of wear on the Curiosity mission, and a cool little helicopter scouting drone.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

I was talking to an oncologist yesterday. Her biggest frustration is that Silicon Valley billionaires are spending billions upon billions to send things to space, when there are serious problems on Earth that could be fought, most importantly cancer. It’s hard to argue with her. $400B/yr would fund a lot of research that would benefit humanity a lot better than a coordinated mission to Mars, even though it would be v…

Let's say you have cancer, but you're also in the middle of a famine and can't feed yourself. That's a more fundamental problem, right? Zoom out, what good is curing cancer in the face of apocalyptic climate change?

The case for Mars is that “humanity putting all of their eggs in one basket” (Earth) is the most fundamental problem of all. Everything else is a band-aid.

(Cancer can’t be cured, incidentally: https://tapas.io/episode/58081)

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, for the 700 billion dollars defense budget you'd get free universal healthcare and higher education for all of the US — AND would still have a few dozen billions to spare on cancer and Mars expeditions... but who in their right mind would want that?

You're underestimating the cost of US healthcare per capita by an extreme amount. Universal healthcare would cost a minimum of $3.6 trillion (that's an ideal scenario where the US gets its per capita spending down to other high spending nations), and a more likely ~$4.5 trillion. Higher education for all would cost at least $600 billion (close to the existing spending for all post secondary institutions annually), mo…

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