Live data from Hacker News

Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

bbc.co.uk

261–270 of 495 posts

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#261
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% of US GDP is financial services it would be hard to argue that you could preserve that without being dominant military power.

Financial services - including insurance - are 7.5% of the US economy, not 40%. https://www.selectusa.gov/financial-services-industry-united...

Most places put it at around 20% I am def off on the 40% figure. (might be the % of exports?)

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#262
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

Or just decrease the insane US defense budget.

Can't project global power without 600 billion and god knows how much black budget money.

If anything the need to project influence is rising again in a way we haven't seen since the height of the soviet union. despite the rhetoric being thrown at other NATO members right now i fully expect the budget to swell again towards 700-750 over the next two terms

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are we safe forever on Earth ? and that's why Mars exploration is more important than curing cancer. Cancer is unlikely to kill everyone of us all at once.

There's almost nothing we could do to this planet which would make Mars a more attractive option. I guess there's always a meteor/comet risk, but practically anything else still leaves Earth as a better option. Even if we all had to live in bio-domes because the planet was so polluted, it would _still_ be a better option than Mars, just by virtue of the fact that we have gravity and an atmosphere. On Mars, a cracked…

Its not that Mars would be better or even equal, but that it would be a second chance, just in case.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many generations down do you care about? Do you think fixing global warming is a waste of time, if it might affect 3 generations down?

It's hard to pinpoint an exact generation where I stop caring. Here's how I like to think of it. If every human alive today died instantly and painlessly, ending the human species and potentially eliminating all sentient life in the universe, I wouldn't care. The people felt no pain, experienced no dread. The only reason to care in that instance is if you believe that the human race has inherent value just be being a…

It's a strange position. There will always be hungry children until we fundamentally change human nature.

I'd argue we're more likely to change human nature through space colonization than here on Earth, but that's a debate I don't expect to see much value from.

More importantly, http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#265
post #196
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An oncologist wishing more money was spent on cancer? In other news, water is wet. First of all, the optimal place for me to spend my money is not necessarily the optimal place for someone else to spend theirs. We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX? Secondly, there is no universal "cancer" that we can fight. There are hundreds of…

Many medical research organizations have more money than they know what to do with. The heart and stroke foundation is a great example of that. I’m not suggesting we don’t fund these orgs, even reduce funding, but i feel like we could diversify into exploration of the universe a little more than we currently are.

I wonder if we should just spend more money on basic science. There could be discoveries that are just as transformative as DNA that is the key we need to progress treatment of disease. And space exploration could be a part of that basic science.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is going into biotech fortunately though. Sam Altman started nudging YC towards biotech a few years ago (one article example https://www.wired.com/2015/11/y-combinator-sam-altman-interv... ) and to date has funded the following companies directly involved in cancer research and treatement: Cambridge Cancer Genomics, Oncobox, Mednet, HistoWiz, Luminist, iSono Health, Notable Labs. And I agree, cancer needs figur…

I agree with you, but I think money spent on iPad games is nothing compared to what's wasted in trying to kill each other, bailing bankers and other things that keep funding the 1%

Yes, however, while the money spent on those is not much, just imagine the time spent, and all the people, all the mental effort, that could be going to something real that builds something new, but instead is going into building virtual things in a virtual world that is virtually meaningless.

I'm not saying games are a waste of time in general, but societies current obsession and normalization of playing them is unfortunate. Same goes for TV, so this started awhile ago, but games dial it up quite a bit.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#267

Why don't we send a rover to some of these interesting places? It seems like we're constantly making fascinating finds on Mars, then send rovers to the middle of a random rocky desert.

For any exploratory drilling, or covering any real amount of ground, you need humans. For reference, Opportunity Rover has only traveled 45 km/28 mi in 14 years. A human can collect more specimens in a day than ALL of the rovers have to date. If we remove this year's launch window, you have 10 minimum-energy launch windows in the next 21 years. 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026, 2029, 2031, 2033, 2035, 2037, 2039. If we could g…

I like the direction you're thinking - I've wondered lately if there isn't actually some chance for politicians to get us off of perpetual war-based economies and on to space exploration economies. Maybe naive. One problem I see is the added waste of a global governmental effort. Look at ITER - it sounds nice in theory to have several countries work toward a lofty goal like fusion. But in actuality, each country wants it's own piece so it's built all over the world, assembled in France, is way over budget and the end goal is to do prove the concept by 2025, not build an actual commercial fusion power plant. Similar criticisms are made of ISS. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if those 5 countries were in a friendly "space race" with their 1% GDP each. Instead of one big program you could run 5 parallel programs that compete. It got us to the moon after all. Obviously there is a place for international cooperation and openness especially in science, but I do wonder if there need to be more base motivations to really get things moving.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#268
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An oncologist wishing more money was spent on cancer? In other news, water is wet. First of all, the optimal place for me to spend my money is not necessarily the optimal place for someone else to spend theirs. We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX? Secondly, there is no universal "cancer" that we can fight. There are hundreds of…

I think the dialogue quoted here demonstrates the underlying issue that is lost in futurist thought. No one "pioneered the west". Various groups of people with powerful technology traveled west and stole land from other groups of people. They also traveled south and east and used that technical and economic power to enslave other humans and forced them to develop the west. Development and progress for progress' sake…

This is the wisest comment here.

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#269
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking to an oncologist yesterday. Her biggest frustration is that Silicon Valley billionaires are spending billions upon billions to send things to space, when there are serious problems on Earth that could be fought, most importantly cancer. It’s hard to argue with her. $400B/yr would fund a lot of research that would benefit humanity a lot better than a coordinated mission to Mars, even though it would be v…

An oncologist wishing more money was spent on cancer? In other news, water is wet. First of all, the optimal place for me to spend my money is not necessarily the optimal place for someone else to spend theirs. We can't know for sure, of course, but who were would have preferred Elon Musk start a cancer research firm instead of SpaceX? Secondly, there is no universal "cancer" that we can fight. There are hundreds of…

Humans do have a stunning track record of fucking up the things we explored and pioneered. Maybe it's time we clean up the messes we made instead of finding a new place to ruin?

Re: Liquid water 'lake' revealed on Mars

#270
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do you expect anyone to value your opinion on what to do with human-race-as-a-whole-scale resources?

Because I care to what happens about all living humans today. I simply don't care about the long term survival of our species. Spreading across the galaxy or the universe so that there can be more humans alive or to ensure that if one planet gets wiped out, some humans live on are placing value on the existence of humans as a species in the universe. That's what I don't care about. I don't think we have intrinsic val…

> I care to what happens about all living humans today. I simply don't care about the long term survival of our species.

> why should I care whether all of our eggs are in one basket, or two baskets, or a million baskets? The survival of the human race as a whole is not a concern of mine.

In short, because others care.

You cannot reach your goals alone. You need a cooperation from others. But if you didn't care what they care, there would be no cooperation, or cooperation would be not so good as it might be.

Cooperation needs shared values, and the more values are shared, the more effective cooperation would be. If you care only about your goals and not about goals of others, than others would not play with you. If you share some goals (I believe that those who care about long term benefits value short term also) then they accept your cooperation when working on short term goals, but you will not have any influence over them, when they work on long term goals. The only lever on them you would have is a force. Military, political, financial or any other. They would not cooperate willingly.

You can choose war and force those who have other values to work on your values. Or you can respect their values and cooperate with others on them. It is your choice.

Post reply on HN