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Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

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Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#81

Post by robbrit »

Apocryphon wrote: post #76
robbrit wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I moved from Montreal to SF a few years back and although my rent tripled, so did my income. The net result is much more savings than I would have gotten if I had stayed in Canada. If you're a saver/investor then it makes much more sense to move to the US for a little while, save up a decent sized nest egg, then move back.

One wonders how difficult is it to work remotely for a US firm while in Canada.

Based on my anecdotal experience, it would depend entirely on you: your experience, your reputation, and your negotiating ability. If you're a top senior engineer or a celebrity like Tim Bray (https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/) then you can probably swing something with the BigCos, but for a regular junior/intermediate developer you'll have a tougher time getting a deal like that.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#82

Post by stuxnet79 »

AnthonyWnC wrote: post #38

Also Toronto native; was making just under 100k ~ 3 years ago in SysEng/devops role. Now working in NYC in similar role at ~ 185k (Cdn). Even with CoL (housing) of NYC, my savings is much higher. Personally I much prefer to live in Toronto but the salary is just too low.

Out of curiosity, why would you prefer living in Toronto vs NYC (setting salary aside)?

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#83

Post by apercu »

JPKab wrote: post #72
bdamm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, CDN$2k for a nice 1-bedroom shoebox? That's great! Take a look at San Francisco's equivalents, where you'll pay USD$3k or more for rough equivalence; that's about 2x the price. Things get more extreme when you start talking about home ownership. Toronto COL might feel expensive now but it can definitely get a lot more expensive.

The weather in Toronto is god awful compared to San Francisco. Honestly, it's bad compared to almost any US city. I get why Vancouver is so expensive, but never understood Toronto's prices.

Just curious, what cities are you referring to? I've spent time in NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, Milwaukee/Madison, Des Moines, St Louis, Dallas, Houston, Kansas City, Auston, San Antonio and many more. Toronto's weather is pretty similar to more than half that list. No, it's not California, but neither is 97% of the US.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#84

Post by apercu »

robbrit wrote: post #56
DKnoll wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to live downtown. I commute via car from Port Credit where I have an $850/mo bachelor apartment and work at Queen and Bathurst.

You lost me at "commute via car". Toronto has a reputation for some of the worst traffic in North America. It might be cheaper to live that far away, but the cost in quality of life + hours commuting isn't worth the trade. Instead you can just go to a smaller town like Waterloo or a cheaper city like Montreal or Ottawa.

You could easily take a GO train from Port Credit to downtown. Very easily. We did it from Clarkson (the next stop West).

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#86

Post by apercu »

neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

I think there are really good reasons to be in Ontario and in Canada. (I'm a US citizen) but the ONLY reason I would move to the Bay area would be climate and money. And I've worked in PA/Mountain View before. Didn't like it.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#87

Post by RandallBrown »

dyarosla wrote: post #67
Element_ wrote: post #42

There are over 350,000 Canadians living and working in Silicon Valley. Canada's total population is only ~35 million. There is good reason for this mass exodus. The rates for tech workers in Toronto are terrible. An enterprising worker can easily triple their income by working for American companies. The fact that this report is sourced from a real estate firm should give you a hint to the rent-seeking nature of the…

Could you link your source for the 350k figure? Thank you!

Toronto is 75k CAD (57k USD) (https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/toronto-software-engineer...)

San Francisco is 124k USD (https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-en...)

So, it's not triple, but it's more than double.

Also, if you're going from a junior/midlevel role in CA to a senior position in the US, you could pretty easily triple your salary.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#88

Post by apercu »

xienze wrote: post #71
parthdesai wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is much much easier to immigrate to Canada than to USA.

Spits drink Are you serious? Canada has a point-based system that requires you have some actual real skills and an education. I wish we had an immigration system like that in the US. Here, you can just sneak across the border or claim asylum citing vague claims of "persecution" and you'll have an entire political party fighting on your behalf to keep you in the country at all costs. If it were truly that easy to immi…

I found it way easier to move emigrate to Canada than most of my Canadian friends going the other way. Anecdotal but that's been my experience.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#89

Post by illirik »

rescripting wrote: post #60
bdamm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, CDN$2k for a nice 1-bedroom shoebox? That's great! Take a look at San Francisco's equivalents, where you'll pay USD$3k or more for rough equivalence; that's about 2x the price. Things get more extreme when you start talking about home ownership. Toronto COL might feel expensive now but it can definitely get a lot more expensive.

You need to also take in to account average income when looking at COL, which is significantly higher in SF than in TO. If you're spending 2x the price in SF, but making 3x then you come out way ahead.

Assuming you don't spend every red cent you earn, you're better off even if you're spending double and earning double.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#90

Post by AnthonyWnC »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #82
AnthonyWnC wrote: post #38

Also Toronto native; was making just under 100k ~ 3 years ago in SysEng/devops role. Now working in NYC in similar role at ~ 185k (Cdn). Even with CoL (housing) of NYC, my savings is much higher. Personally I much prefer to live in Toronto but the salary is just too low.

Out of curiosity, why would you prefer living in Toronto vs NYC (setting salary aside)?

Toronto is a much cleaner and nicer city, I can drive around everywhere (initially I thought I would not miss my car; I was wrong). I am also Canadian so I prefer to stay in Canada if possible.
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