I've been resetting people's 8 character passwords lost due to Post-Vacation-Insomnia for ages, I'd really like to see them expect me to remember a 50 character password under stress conditions.
Man jailed over computer password refusal
21–30 of 239 posts
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#22I realize this story is in the UK, but could it happen in the US or would the 5th amendment protect you? As an American, it seems a bit insane to me for someone to be jailed for refusing to help convict himself.
I thought remembered a court precedent in the US that ruled being compelled to divulge encryption keys was equivalent to being compelled to hand over keys to locked places (like a safe), which is historically required.
That said, I can't find such an article, so hopefully I'm making it up and we are indeed safe in our minds.
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#23I wonder why he didn't say he "forgot the password". Although it may seem implausible, how could they prove it's not true?
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#24I realize this story is in the UK, but could it happen in the US or would the 5th amendment protect you? As an American, it seems a bit insane to me for someone to be jailed for refusing to help convict himself.
The 5th amendment protects against forced testimony, not against compulsion to provide evidence. You can refuse to testify against yourself, you cannot refuse to comply with a valid search warrant.
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#25In the USA can you be compelled to testify against yourself by being coerced into giving a password to law enforcement? Has this been tested yet, out of curiosity? I remember reading they can deny you entry/exit to the USA if customs can't read your laptop but never heard anything like local/FBI. If not, I hope it doesn't go before this particular supreme court.
Apparently not, although I though I had read of an earlier case where there was a judge that ruled that a password had to be revealed.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2008-02-07-encr...
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#26"It sends a robust message out to those intent on trying to mask their online criminal activities that they will be taken before the courts with the ultimate sanction, as in this case, being a custodial sentence."
seems like a good reason to have "innocent until proven guilty". drive could contain anything, or nothing.
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait until they ask him again, 16 weeks from now...
Can you be tried for the same crime twice?
You can certainly be tried for the same crime twice. You can't be tried twice for the same criminal act. Arguably, if they ask him again after doing his 16 weeks, it's a new action if he refuses to comply.
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#28Just thought of a feature idea for TrueCrypt and other similar packages: encrypted files or partitions can have multiple passwords, which reveal different things. So you could have a password that reveals something embarrassing but not incriminating. If the police or border nazis threaten you with prosecution unless you reveal your password, you give them this one. Meanwhile, you hide anything really confidential beh…
They already have this, It's called plausible deniability. What are the laws in the US on this?
In the US the current rules for personal hard drives are bound by the 5th amendment which has been interpreted as "a reasonable expectation for privacy." What happens is the police say "Give us your password and we'll drop whatever sentence by 75% for helping the investigation." You don't have to give your password but the NSA works pretty extensively with law enforcement and the FBI (most US cases that require password cracks are federal cases but thats a separate issue).
Anything that ever touches an ISP is a totally separate issue though. In that case, in the US, any information stored by an ISP can be retrieved without a warrant 6 months (I'd need to confirm its not 120 days) after the incident. Those cases fall under the interpretation of a message overheard. In 5th Amendment cases, if you say a message in a crowded room, you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy and this is how any message on the internet is interpreted legally. There was also a court case this spring where the DoD sued an ISP to give over IP addresses sooner than the 6 month (120 days?) limit (anyone got a link?). The DoD dropped the case though.
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#29In the USA can you be compelled to testify against yourself by being coerced into giving a password to law enforcement? Has this been tested yet, out of curiosity? I remember reading they can deny you entry/exit to the USA if customs can't read your laptop but never heard anything like local/FBI. If not, I hope it doesn't go before this particular supreme court.
They can slap an "obstruction of justice" charge on. Or charge you with "contempt of court" and just jail you based on that.
In broader terms yes the system has a way to inflict random punishment on you for disobidience.
In other countries they will just start breaking your fingers, your loved ones fingers, and so on. So the password problem is solved a lot "easier" then.
Re: Man jailed over computer password refusal
#30I realize this story is in the UK, but could it happen in the US or would the 5th amendment protect you? As an American, it seems a bit insane to me for someone to be jailed for refusing to help convict himself.
I thought remembered a court precedent in the US that ruled being compelled to divulge encryption keys was equivalent to being compelled to hand over keys to locked places (like a safe), which is historically required. That said, I can't find such an article, so hopefully I'm making it up and we are indeed safe in our minds.
I thought that also but then found this from 2008: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2008-02-07-encr...