Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#211

Post by mirimir » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 8:32 AM UTC

white-flame wrote: post #177

joshstrange wrote: post #60

This appears to be working as expected. Here is a graph [0] of the Intel Power Gadget while I ran Cinebench. They are not the same length because it took longer before the update and I cut out the parts before and after. Pretty striking difference IMHO and it never went below base clock after the update. I was worried about my i9 but I'm not anymore. Also if anyone is wondering it went from 780cb -> 860cb but I would…

But how do the temperatures differ before & after the update?

From what I've read, it's stable at ~92°C.[0]

That seems damn high to me, but then I'm most familiar with desktops and servers, where you can cool far more aggressively. So is long term ~92°C hard on CPUs?

0) https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-speed-throttling...

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#212

Post by sjwright » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 8:36 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #183

sjwright wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is his arguments are devoid of context or proportion. He is looking with a microscope—both metaphorically and literally—at tiny details on a circuit board which don't seem to be a problem for >99% of Apple's customers. Are these points of failure really any more common on Apple devices than their competitors? (There is a remarkable difference in mindset for the majority of MacBook and PC laptop owners. PC…

I would be very surprised if Louis specifically endorsed non Gorilla glass replacements. It's possible that he does. I just watch his repair videos. As far as that goes: don't buy them, and don't get repairs from someone who would sell you one! I know multiple people who have had their iPhones independently repaired only to have the screen break again in a matter of days or weeks, under the most innocuous of circumst…

> I would be very surprised if Louis specifically endorsed non Gorilla glass replacements.

He pretty much does.

"So what they do is they take this screen ... and they replace the front glass layer. Most of the time the only thing wrong with the screen is the front glass layer is cracked. They put a new glass on it in China and then they sell it to us in the United States as a refurbished iPhone screen ... That is not a counterfeit."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPUoUJPJAQ&t=1m55s

I understand why Louis gets worked up about this particular issue, but he's just flat out wrong. These refurbs are dodgy as fuck. The assemblies as sold are counterfeit.

> some people can't keep nice things

Absolutely. I don't disagree, but this doesn't describe the people I spoke about. Accidents happen to all of us, even when we're particularly careful. I would never expect a glass computer to survive rough treatment but I do expect that when it's repaired with a "refurbished Apple screen" that it is made of substantially the same material as the original.

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#213

Post by bonestamp2 » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 8:40 AM UTC

temac wrote: post #191

breatheoften wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official explanation seems to be that the key management defect which lead to thermal management problems did not occur in the development machines used during the engineering process. This seems possible as presumably every machine used internally goes through a different provisioning process than those released into customer hands ... Thus the claimed cause of the problem seems to indicate that the flaw did not…

Engineering, especially at this level, is not supposed to work like that. You certainly not do dev proto, then switch to prod both in one step and without even rechecking the tests you did on the proto. So their official explanation might be kind of right, but then it shows major deficiencies in their quality process. Which given the track record of quality issues they have had, is possible.

> You certainly not do dev proto, then switch to prod both in one step and without even rechecking the tests you did on the proto.

Exactly. I work in software engineering for cars and even for things that are not mission critical or life-threatening, the engineering and quality process is insane because so much money is on the line. I wouldn't be surprised if macbook pros are worth more in profit, or at least revenue, than a car line and should therefore see an equal engineering process.

I can't understand how the firmware was released without the proper key, unless there was a bad merge or they dropped a pilot firmware that was testing without thermal management... maybe a clue there is a desktop in the works and the desktop firmware made it onto the macbook pros? Either way, like you said, their quality process has a major deficiency.

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#214

Post by ralfd » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:05 AM UTC

kjeetgill wrote: post #88

satysin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone put a high end laptop on their legs while doing a prolonged intensive task such as video rendering??

You never need to compile things sitting in a coffee shop? I do it at least two three times a week.

is compiling as taxing as video rendering though?

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#215

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:08 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #211

white-flame wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how do the temperatures differ before & after the update?

From what I've read, it's stable at ~92°C.[0] That seems damn high to me, but then I'm most familiar with desktops and servers, where you can cool far more aggressively. So is long term ~92°C hard on CPUs? 0) https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-speed-throttling...

[deleted]

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#216

Post by thom » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

earenndil wrote: post #39

tomp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have tremendous brand loyalty, but will need to be more careful in the future. Does that really matter though? I was just discussing this with someone over the weekend... his thesis was that people buy Apple because of branding, which might be true as far as the majority of customers are concerned... But for people like me (powerusers), MacBooks are simply the best possible choice. Everything else is either ad…

I've had no driver problems running linux on my laptop, just sayin.

I've currently got no driver issues per se. But even in 2018 I don't have hibernation out of the box, battery life and wifi are both worse than Windows on the same machine, and the fans are on all the time.

I mean, I still love it and these aren't life or death issues, it's just something fundamental about the nature of Linux in an ecosystem of proprietary hardware specs and commercial drivers. It will always be a fact of life. Just like Linux package management, because the software is open source, will always be better than on Windows or a Mac. That's a fact of life that can't really change because of the nature of _their_ ecosystems.

No harm in admitting the differences, but good for you if everything works out of the box!

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#217

Post by zaarn » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:24 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #184

matthewmacleod wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one am much happier with the newer keyboard and now the old one feels weirdly mushy and gross. I reckon keyboards are a matter of taste ultimately.

> I reckon keyboards are a matter of taste ultimately. People can debate about the feel of the keyboard but its fact that the new keyboards are louder compared to the 2015 keyboard. The noise gets annoying when you are working late night.

There is lots of people happily typing on Cherry MX Blue switches, notorious for being loud. I know some using IBM Model M which is even louder.

Even the noise is a subjective taste, ultimately.

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#218

Post by mikkelam » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

ralfd wrote: post #214

kjeetgill wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never need to compile things sitting in a coffee shop? I do it at least two three times a week.

is compiling as taxing as video rendering though?

Sure, if the compiler is able to leverage all cores in an intensive task

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#219

Post by zaarn » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:27 AM UTC

NightlyDev wrote: post #119

haikuginger wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPU itself had plenty of thermal headroom, but was overdrawing the power system - which then thermally throttled itself way more aggressively and in a less-controlled manner. The update changes the curve to ensure that the CPU doesn't draw more power than the power system can handle for extended periods. The CPU will still downclock itself as needed if it experiences its own thermal overload.

Are you saying Intel CPUs now can adapt to power loss, instead of just not working? I doubt that very much. The CPU got too hot(easily reaching 100C) so there was definetly not "plenty of headroom", in fact, there was no headroom at all.

It's not a powerloss but voltage goes down. Modern VRMs can also signal their power capabilies and reserves.

If the CPU draws more current than the VRM can handle, this is usually okay within bounds for a very short time, after than you'll get dropping voltage when the VRM starts to self regulate and the CPU will downclock in response.

Re: Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

#220

Post by dimillian » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 9:33 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #211

white-flame wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how do the temperatures differ before & after the update?

From what I've read, it's stable at ~92°C.[0] That seems damn high to me, but then I'm most familiar with desktops and servers, where you can cool far more aggressively. So is long term ~92°C hard on CPUs? 0) https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-speed-throttling...

My old MacBook Pro I had for more than 5 years is 90% of the time around 100C. Whenever I'm working or playing. It's still working good.