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To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

quantamagazine.org

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Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#61

Post by heed »

8bitsrule wrote: post #48

If we remembered everything, he said, we would be completely inefficient because our brains would always be swamped with superfluous memories. Yet there are a few people who, it has elsewhere been claimed, can remember details from every day of their life, on demand. What's 'superfluous' to one of us may be essential to others... a strictly subjective judgement. Some of us are specialists, others generalists. The tro…

I've heard of these people, but if I remember correctly they were of the type to obessesively recall the events/details of their day - like a form of OCD.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#62

Post by hyperpallium »

ZainRiz wrote: post #31
adriand wrote: post #17

I remember sitting at a bar in a distant city in some other country one night, and the person next to me, who I had just met that day, suggested that we do a shot together. Now these shots were big, and it had already been quite the night, and I remember thinking, "If I do this shot, it's probably the last thing I'll remember tonight." It was, but that's not the point of this anecdote. This experience gave me the ide…

There might be a market for this with high end consultants or psychiatrists as a more secure alternative to signing an NDA. It'll be something similar to the movie Paycheck You give the consultant the drug, then proceed to share your secrets with them and get their expert advice on your issue. Then by the end of the day/week/whatever they'll forget everything you told them and your secrets will be secure.

[Spoiler] Another usage: Larry Niven used this for blackmail information, Neutron Star.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#63

Post by ehnto »

Minor and probably not that interesting anecdote: I always struggled to remember sequences of numbers. Even if I had looked at the number just a fraction of a moment ago, they were gone. I would have to do things like repeat them over and over or remember two numbers at a time. I was always buzzing in my head anout remembering the numbers and that produced a noise that I think made me forget.

Then I started cleaning up my attention span a bit, less social media, less mindless scrolling, more thoughtful long term tasks and planning. It helped a lot, but it wasn't perfect still.

Then one day I tried reading a number sequence once, not making a single noise in my brain, and I jotted it down again with ease. It seemed the secret for me was to trust my memory had the number in working memory somewhere, rather than trying to persist it my concious stream of thought which inevitably garbled it.

The brain is weird.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#64

Post by dhekir »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #30
adriand wrote: post #17

I remember sitting at a bar in a distant city in some other country one night, and the person next to me, who I had just met that day, suggested that we do a shot together. Now these shots were big, and it had already been quite the night, and I remember thinking, "If I do this shot, it's probably the last thing I'll remember tonight." It was, but that's not the point of this anecdote. This experience gave me the ide…

Such a drug exists. Namely, anything of the benzodiazepine class.

Can it or has it been used for UX testing? Having a way to "reset" people for interface testing would be useful. Preferably without side effects, of course.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#65

Post by bojo »

As someone who has moved to Japan for the last ~12 years and speaks the language daily, I struggle to remember terms I am absolutely postive I know but can't recall while in the middle of conversations with my English speaking employees. Or even worse, deep in personal thought I have to start googling around to recall a term I know I know.

There are linguistic studies which show that this is the norm (i.e. as a second language learner using said language daily, you begin to forget your mother tongue), but I have to admit it is quite disconcerting when I have to take a multi-second break to recall an uncommon word before I can carry the conversation further.

I guess the moral of the story is that, yeah, you forget things you don't actively use.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#66

Post by PakG1 »

Cyphase wrote: post #43
ZainRiz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be a market for this with high end consultants or psychiatrists as a more secure alternative to signing an NDA. It'll be something similar to the movie Paycheck You give the consultant the drug, then proceed to share your secrets with them and get their expert advice on your issue. Then by the end of the day/week/whatever they'll forget everything you told them and your secrets will be secure.

Philip K. Dick explored this idea in his short story "Paycheck"[0], which was made into a movie[1]. Edit: Did you edit your comment? I'm pretty sure you hadn't mentioned Paycheck. No problem, just making sure I'm not going crazy. :) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycheck_(short_story) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycheck_(film)

You're not going crazy, it's normal for the brain to actively forget, didn't you read? :P

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#67

Post by demircancelebi »

heed wrote: post #61
8bitsrule wrote: post #48

If we remembered everything, he said, we would be completely inefficient because our brains would always be swamped with superfluous memories. Yet there are a few people who, it has elsewhere been claimed, can remember details from every day of their life, on demand. What's 'superfluous' to one of us may be essential to others... a strictly subjective judgement. Some of us are specialists, others generalists. The tro…

I've heard of these people, but if I remember correctly they were of the type to obessesively recall the events/details of their day - like a form of OCD.

For the curious one, I think this is called Hyperthymesia.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#68

Post by la_oveja »

ehnto wrote: post #63

Minor and probably not that interesting anecdote: I always struggled to remember sequences of numbers. Even if I had looked at the number just a fraction of a moment ago, they were gone. I would have to do things like repeat them over and over or remember two numbers at a time. I was always buzzing in my head anout remembering the numbers and that produced a noise that I think made me forget. Then I started cleaning…

> It seemed the secret for me was to trust my memory had the number in working memory somewhere, rather than trying to persist it my concious stream of thought which inevitably garbled it.

That happens to me too! PIN keys, or bank passwords I know I know, if I try to think to remember them, I'm unable to remember them correctly. Instead, just seeing the input interface, blank my brain and I start pressing keys... And I write them down perfectly!

Indeed, the brain is very weird.

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#69

Post by mateuszf »

la_oveja wrote: post #68
ehnto wrote: post #63

Minor and probably not that interesting anecdote: I always struggled to remember sequences of numbers. Even if I had looked at the number just a fraction of a moment ago, they were gone. I would have to do things like repeat them over and over or remember two numbers at a time. I was always buzzing in my head anout remembering the numbers and that produced a noise that I think made me forget. Then I started cleaning…

> It seemed the secret for me was to trust my memory had the number in working memory somewhere, rather than trying to persist it my concious stream of thought which inevitably garbled it. That happens to me too! PIN keys, or bank passwords I know I know, if I try to think to remember them, I'm unable to remember them correctly. Instead, just seeing the input interface, blank my brain and I start pressing keys... And…

Now that's a good way to remember my btc private keys ;)

Re: To Remember, the Brain Must Actively Forget

#70

Post by bpizzi »

adriand wrote: post #17

I remember sitting at a bar in a distant city in some other country one night, and the person next to me, who I had just met that day, suggested that we do a shot together. Now these shots were big, and it had already been quite the night, and I remember thinking, "If I do this shot, it's probably the last thing I'll remember tonight." It was, but that's not the point of this anecdote. This experience gave me the ide…

Personnaly I would never use such a drug. I conceptualise myself as a tought-based kernel with a bunch of meat around to make it run. This kernel tries hardly to think about itself as 'one thing' (you don't achieve much with schizophrenia), and that relies heavily on this kernel being able to trace a continuous stream of tought back to its birth (at least as far as it can remember). Alter this stream and you loose yourself (the bigger the altering the bigger the loosing).

Two more things: (i) I'm aware that not everybody thinks the same, mainly because fellow humans acts as a constant reminder of who you were before, and (ii) yes, sleeping is disturbing to me, I try not to think about it too much.

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