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Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

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Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#21

Post by antris »

Rotdhizon wrote: post #3

I hate how this has for some reason been big news the past few days. One mediocre article came out about it, now it keeps getting regurgitated through other news sites. This is nothing new, the US infrastructure has likely been compromised for quite some time. Many of the very critical plants that hold the keys to keeping the lights on, water flowing, water treated, etc are mostly running on systems built pre 2000 th…

Can you please provide the sources for the claim that this compromise has been widely known before?

I've had the gut feeling too, that utility control rooms have been compromised for a long time, but my gut feeling isn't the same as knowing and it isn't newsworthy either.

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#22

Post by gepi79 »

ilovetux wrote: post #16
gepi79 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree except for the last point. The most aggressive states are USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, UK and France while being (morally) supported by NATO allies. They engage in overt and secret warfare because they can in order to meet some objective. They do not engage in war because they were attacked.

[citation needed]?

Kosovo war. Iraq war. Libya war. Regime change in Ukraine. Syria war. Economic sanctions killing hundreds of thousands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-trib...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scokGJga8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsG32fkm6sE

https://youtu.be/MlNn1v4_Uf0?t=1600

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLkL4Fj3jFw

https://www.globalresearch.ca/obamas-bombing-legacy/5569349

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIDgAAU4Ww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS2MMTMsdvM&t=21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fV-C1Ag5sI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UHYAfAFG_k&t=6

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#23

Post by ilovetux »

gepi79 wrote: post #22
ilovetux wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]?

Kosovo war. Iraq war. Libya war. Regime change in Ukraine. Syria war. Economic sanctions killing hundreds of thousands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-trib... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scokGJga8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsG32fkm6sE https://youtu.be/MlNn1v4_Uf0?t=1600 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLkL4Fj3jFw https://www.globalresear…

I have checked each of these links and this does not feel like reliable information.

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#24

Post by gepi79 »

ilovetux wrote: post #23
gepi79 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kosovo war. Iraq war. Libya war. Regime change in Ukraine. Syria war. Economic sanctions killing hundreds of thousands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-trib... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scokGJga8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsG32fkm6sE https://youtu.be/MlNn1v4_Uf0?t=1600 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLkL4Fj3jFw https://www.globalresear…

I have checked each of these links and this does not feel like reliable information.

Why not ? Why judge by feeling ?

Anyway, thanks for the courtesy of checking each link.

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#25

Post by ilovetux »

gepi79 wrote: post #24
ilovetux wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have checked each of these links and this does not feel like reliable information.

Why not ? Why judge by feeling ? Anyway, thanks for the courtesy of checking each link.

Feeling is all I have in the end, sure it's backed up by what I have learned through the years but in the end the decisions I make are not only informed by my feelings but will also affect my feelings for the rest of my life.

I have a healthy distrust of my government (The US) and I know there have been travesties committed by just about all of the players. I want to be informed and am willing to do the research. I was pretty young during some of the conflicts you mentioned so I'm also brushing up on some of the history.

Which side do you align yourself with in the Kosovo war, it seems like it was a terrible ordeal for everyone involved?

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#26

Post by jbob2000 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4
Rotdhizon wrote: post #3

I hate how this has for some reason been big news the past few days. One mediocre article came out about it, now it keeps getting regurgitated through other news sites. This is nothing new, the US infrastructure has likely been compromised for quite some time. Many of the very critical plants that hold the keys to keeping the lights on, water flowing, water treated, etc are mostly running on systems built pre 2000 th…

> This is nothing new, the US infrastructure has likely been compromised for quite some time Just because something isn't new doesn't mean it can't be news. "The well is poisoned!" "Bob noticed that last week. Why are you still talking about this? "..." It's being discussed now. Better late than never.

It's more like, "The well is poisoned and Bob noticed last week, but we can't fix the problem because then people go without drinking water for 2 weeks"

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#27

Post by pnathan »

ryanmercer wrote: post #18
pnathan wrote: post #15

Really? It'd be surprising if they hadn't. I'd expect utilities to be one of the softest targets out there, based on prior interaction with the industry... edit: About 8-10 years ago I used to collect news articles, reports to congress, etc, about ICS (industrial control systems, the superset of utilities) being hacked. It was regular, comprehensive, and depressing. The ICS industry was running 15-20 years behind in…

>Really? It'd be surprising if they hadn't. Ding ding ding. PLA Unit 61398, Bureau 121, Unit 8200, Fancy Bear... doesn't surprise me if all of them have any variety of ways into our infrastructure.

Yes, I expect pretty much every funded "cyber" agency has explored our systems, from the UK to Somalia. I expect any neutral to semi-hostile country (e.g., North Korea) has dormant C&C systems in our infrastructure.

The conversation needs to be around, "we have known electronic critical infrastructure has been thoroughly compromised for a decade, how do we contain, mitigate, and remove the compromises."

I don't mean to fear-monger or suggest fear mongering. The status quo has been "don't do anything particularly troublesome" on all sides, and that has been stable to date with only mild perturbations such as Stuxnet. It's probably a MAD calculus, with the recognition that open hostile acts would escalate to, as the phrase goes, "kinetic actions".

The US could open the dialogue with the frank admission that our pants are not only down, but blew away in the breeze - we should, all of us, mutually, improve our security. I don't know that this is possible with, e.g., the US power grid without nationalizing it - the profit motive for defending against rare argues against security, as we all know...

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#28

Post by gepi79 »

ilovetux wrote: post #25
gepi79 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not ? Why judge by feeling ? Anyway, thanks for the courtesy of checking each link.

Feeling is all I have in the end, sure it's backed up by what I have learned through the years but in the end the decisions I make are not only informed by my feelings but will also affect my feelings for the rest of my life. I have a healthy distrust of my government (The US) and I know there have been travesties committed by just about all of the players. I want to be informed and am willing to do the research. I w…

I live in West-Europe. War is always the worst case involving all (non-)imaginable harm and misery.

I side with Syria/Russia in the war in Syria because the case is clear.

Protected by the Syrian army: https://www.unusualtraveler.com/damascus/

Destroyed by the opposition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil... and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6omfaKhZL0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OeM0tFmFs

I side with no one in the past Kosovo war. The conflict was complicated and some conflict still remains in the region.

Some years ago, when I found out about the extent of propaganda and lies and often ignorance or lack of normal morality of the politicians and the media, I was shocked and angry.

After much time reading various sources and comment sections, one learns what to expect from the usual factions and actors and what is most likely true and what is story.

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#29

Post by ryanmercer »

pnathan wrote: post #27
ryanmercer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Really? It'd be surprising if they hadn't. Ding ding ding. PLA Unit 61398, Bureau 121, Unit 8200, Fancy Bear... doesn't surprise me if all of them have any variety of ways into our infrastructure.

Yes, I expect pretty much every funded "cyber" agency has explored our systems, from the UK to Somalia. I expect any neutral to semi-hostile country (e.g., North Korea) has dormant C&C systems in our infrastructure. The conversation needs to be around, "we have known electronic critical infrastructure has been thoroughly compromised for a decade, how do we contain, mitigate, and remove the compromises." I don't mean…

I keep waiting for someone to accidentally discover something in networking hardware that shuts down/shits itself when it gets some specific VLF signal, with it baked right into an IC.

Example: Hostile satellite broadcasts VLF signal, the compromised hardware is always sitting there listening for a specific command with a hybrid IC that does both its expected job and acts as a radio receiver for a very specific signal or signals with code that gets activated when a specific match is detected. VLF is used by submarines to get small amounts of data out from deep underwater, would pass through buildings with ease. Code triggers chip to stop its intended purpose or to run some other code. Even with a few % of networking hardware compromised you'd create a massive disruption that could bring the internet to a grind leading up to an invasion.

You could have the same hybrid chip in traditional telephony hardware, cellular telephony hardware, civilian GPS units, power industry hardware, vehicles. It's not unplausible, in fact, counterfeit chips have already been found time and time again in hardware, polluting a supply intended for sale in the U.S. at one or more Chinese factories would be trivial for the Chinese government for example.

Even just sending a signal to cheap IoT devices or those cody streaming devices all over the internet, at gun shows, at fairs, at flea markets and you could instantly turn on some massive army that starts randomly pinging specific IP addresses or just random sets of IP addresses to just bog down the internet.

People worry about the software, I worry about the ICs themselves.

Re: Russian Hackers Reach US Utility Control Rooms, Homeland Security Officials Say

#30

Post by forapurpose »

notveryrational wrote: post #13

Russia's cyber military is James Bond level cool. There are speculations (nobody can prove it) that they set up their own TOR using onion-like proxies, with a custom crypto protocol, over Shodan-discovered endpoints, through a clever use of tunneling through UPNP systems on the internet, with incredible OPSEC - even burning the whole infrastructure several years after it was discovered. Some day we'll get uncensored…

Is this sarcastic? A dream? An outline of a short story? Is there any basis?

> intense personalities

?

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