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The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

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Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#171

Post by btilly »

gowld wrote: post #148
sli wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say they're ancillary, most of what you said is the claimed benefit of homework (regardless of the correctness of that claim). I'd say you're mostly using the homework as a guide for tutoring, which isn't something that actually requires homework to be assigned by the school if you're willing to be proactive.

Some parents need a little nudge to support their children's education beyond "school is daycare while I work".

As every parent learns, there is no shortage of assholes who are quick to explain how you are doing it wrong. No matter how you parent, someone thinks that they know better and has no trouble explaining that in an insulting tone.

Thank you for being a case in point. It doesn't matter what else I do, (see http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2012/10/my-sons-flashcard-routi... for example), I can always be accused of being lazy from the peanut gallery.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#172

Post by seanmcdirmid »

gowld wrote: post #150
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a semi-academic, practice supervision sounds like a horrible use of limited teacher/classroom time. But I guess that is true at the high end (in universities and higher performing kids) but not at the lower end where professional practice supervision is much more necessary.

University-education researches also recommend supervised practice. When I got a job as a TA in college, I had the same attitude you did, and the TA lead / education researcher scolded me about it.

Are you in physics? Sections in CS courses are more for discussions and Q&A, they aren’t coding their assignments during that time.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#173

Post by gowld »

mikec3010 wrote: post #125
linuxftw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a symptom that today's children don't have the same type of bond with their peers as previous generations. Yesteryear, kids would have discussed classwork with their friends and classmates. All socialization has been removed from classrooms, outside of 'group activities.' The only people they know how to talk to are their parents.

> The only people they know how to talk to are their parents. I believe it. This gets brought up often here, but when you drive through residential neighborhoods you don't see kids playing or travelling to their friend's houses anymore. Either people are having way fewer kids or they aren't allowed to do things autonomously anymore. This undoubtedly correlates with rising obesity. But instead of blaming lack of play,…

The great thing about science by gut feel is you can choose which contradictions you like. In a fitness thread, it's "abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym". But in a parenting thread it's "fat is burned in the street, not the diet"

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#174

Post by gowld »

smelendez wrote: post #21

> Some schools have an explicit policy against parents doing kids' homework and in favor of kids raising issues and concerns themselves rather than relying on their parents to do so. These schools are part of the solution. I'd love to see these policies tested, e.g., have five high school kids with class scheduling issues attempt to resolve them themselves, and another five have their parents call, and compare how th…

What school on earth has a policy that allows parents doing kids' homework?

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#175

Post by projektir »

If you find a behavior you don't like, figure out what's causing it. It's probably not random, parents are probably not just being dumb.

Test scores, or minor misbehaviors, or other things, can disproportionately influence someone's future, to extents that are not realistic or human. Children, left to their own devices, will have trouble surviving in a world that runs on rules that don't actually make sense. Parents can sense this, so they try to protect their children, and they play by the rules that they see. There's no advantage to being fair, to doing things the "right" way, because the message has already gotten out that the rules are arbitrary. It's not important what you know, it's important that you pass the test.

Or, as they say, "best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" (very horrible sentiment).

If you don't want parents being overzealous and a bit crazy about their children, stop making society so damn competitive and inflexible. There are so many pitfalls someone can fall down just by accident, just by being human.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#176

Post by btilly »

leesalminen wrote: post #154
btilly wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent of a smart 13 year old with somewhat serious ADHD and a complex home environment (divorced, remarried, 2 houses, multiple children around), homework has been an unmitigated disaster. The best thing about his going on an IEP was that we could get a no homework policy for him. This immediately improved his grades, reduced stress, and made his attitude towards school improve. So mileage does vary on these…

Are you saying that exposing a child to a complex home environment has 0 impact on their ability to complete homework at home?

No, and I have no idea why you would extrapolate that from what I said.

I listed factors that will make homework harder for him. He is older, so more homework. A complex home environment, so harder to stay organized and consistent. More children, dividing parental attention. The more serious that ADHD is, the harder that staying on task becomes.

Put it all together, and homework becomes a lot bigger issue for him than it is for a normal child.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#177

Post by btilly »

tofflos wrote: post #133
marcell wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is on average no academic benefit What? This sounds BS. If you don’t practice what you learn in school, how will you ever master it? Eg. How will you learn integration if you don’t do some practice problems?

Parent also wrote "You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time" so he/she agrees with you but argues that there is enough time for that practice to take place at school.

Exactly right. Practice is essential, but it is essential that it be correct practice. According to research, supervised practice in the classroom is both superior to homework, and sufficient for learning.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#178

Post by mikec3010 »

gowld wrote: post #173
mikec3010 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only people they know how to talk to are their parents. I believe it. This gets brought up often here, but when you drive through residential neighborhoods you don't see kids playing or travelling to their friend's houses anymore. Either people are having way fewer kids or they aren't allowed to do things autonomously anymore. This undoubtedly correlates with rising obesity. But instead of blaming lack of play,…

The great thing about science by gut feel is you can choose which contradictions you like. In a fitness thread, it's "abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym". But in a parenting thread it's "fat is burned in the street, not the diet"

I'm not saying junk food is good for kids. But kids are growing and their bodies change much more rapidly than adults'. If they slam a liter of soda a day they can still burn those calories off by riding their bikes or playing soccer for 2 hours after school (unlike an adult, they have both the time and energy to do so). They can't burn those calories off by streaming CS:GO on Twitch for 4 hours.

So you're falsely equating an adult's fitness regimen with a child's (kids don't care about showing their abs).

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#179

Post by Viliam1234 »

grkvlt wrote: post #94
fosco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this perspective interesting and I think this discussion needs to be taken further as I think it is unclear on both sides what the final expectations are to be upon completion of class/grade. that being said, I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. I think that in most public schools (the one I went to) some parenting needs t…

> teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side Isn't this exactly what teachers must do, by law? This is what the term 'in loco parentis'[0] means - they are acting as parental substitutes. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis

Parenting is more difficult for a teacher than for a parent, because:

- the parent has 1 or 2 or 3 kids, the teacher has 20 or 30 at the same time;

- the parent spends plenty of time with kids, the teacher spends 45 minutes, and that's supposed to include teaching and examining;

- the parent knows the child for years, the teacher may meet the teenager for the first time;

- the parent can use a wild scale of rewards and punishment, the teacher... pretty much nothing, other than verbal feedback.

So you can see it is quite unrealistic to expect the teacher to do the same amount of parenting as the parents are supposed to do.

(By the way, in my experience the best behaving kids typically have at least one parent a teacher. I suppose it is because that parent has no illusions about how much parenting a school can do, and therefore does not try to outsource parenting to the school.)

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#180

Post by Viliam1234 »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #16
thorell wrote: post #14

I think a lot of parents don't know how to effectively parent and make up for that with enthusiasm. Too much involvement, not enough parenting. I am guilty of this.

Which leads to the question of how one teaches general parenting skill.

You can start by reading "Don't shoot the dog" and "Nonviolent communication"; and then perhaps "Games people play". None of that is specifically about parenting, but each teaches an important skill to a parent.
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