Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 204 posts

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#151

Post by gowld »

marcell wrote: post #124
btilly wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me turn this around. As a parent, I think that teachers should pay attention to research on homework that says there is on average no academic benefit, but there is a huge cost in family conflict. You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time. Free family time up for what parents see best.

> there is on average no academic benefit What? This sounds BS. If you don’t practice what you learn in school, how will you ever master it? Eg. How will you learn integration if you don’t do some practice problems?

In theory, you are right. But experiment trumps theory.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#152

Post by nybble41 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #134
nybble41 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that having children should be treated as a strict liability tort is...unusual. Yes, but that isn't what I was saying. "Having children" is not the tort. Damaging others' property is the tort. The parents are liable because it was their child that caused the damage. The child is their responsibility. What the child does, they did. > or a tort by the child with a rule that parents are liable for the childre…

> The legal duty which was failed in this case is the duty to not damage others' property. One doesn't have such a duty, otherwise we wouldn't have specific torts at all, you'd just jump straight to damages. > You do have that, right? No, the closest thing to that is general negligence, where you owe a duty of reasonable care. Damages resulting despite exercise of reasonable care (other than where a strict liability…

> No, the closest thing to that is general negligence, where you owe a duty of reasonable care.

So your legal system does recognize a duty not to damage others' property.

I think it is safe to say that flooding the room is a good example of not taking "reasonable care".

> If no breach of a legal duty occurs that produces the accident...

Irrelevant, as we've already established that there was a legal duty which was breached.

> But the argument you make for that position is inconsistent with the results in reality.

Only if you start from the position that parents are not responsible for damages caused by their children, which is itself contrary to reality.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#153

Post by gowld »

bunderbunder wrote: post #117
ameister14 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually another way entirely to do it - have the time in class for working and have the time after for actively learning. So the students read and learn new concepts at home and practice them in group settings at school. Unfortunately, that depends on the home environment being conducive to learning.

A big part of the idea behind an inverted classroom model is to try and smooth over those problems. If a kid has a home environment that's not conducive to concentration, but they're just reading or watching videos or whatever in that time, then the damage is fairly limited and is something the teacher will get a chance to smooth over the next day. Whereas if they're supposed to be working on homework during that tim…

The unspoken distinction you are making is that high-stakes homework is the problem.

> Taylorist nightmare that US schools have become

What's this?

Schools have migrated toward standardized testing uber alles, not homework/classroom grades. Are you referring to the grade-level standards that don't allow students to progress at their own pace below grade level? That's not really a matter of homework vs not -- if a student can't learn the standard material in 6hr/day, then they either need to do homework, "fail" at school, or escape.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#154

Post by leesalminen »

btilly wrote: post #126
fatnoah wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent of a smart 10 year old with ADHD, homework has actually been invaluable. We use the larger assignments to help him learn to manage his time and attention level. For example, we take a 5 minute scooter break after 20 minutes of work. For very large assignments, we also break things up into manageable chunks. The homework is also very useful to have a chance to review topics and ensure understanding of th…

As the parent of a smart 13 year old with somewhat serious ADHD and a complex home environment (divorced, remarried, 2 houses, multiple children around), homework has been an unmitigated disaster. The best thing about his going on an IEP was that we could get a no homework policy for him. This immediately improved his grades, reduced stress, and made his attitude towards school improve. So mileage does vary on these…

Are you saying that exposing a child to a complex home environment has 0 impact on their ability to complete homework at home?

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#155

Post by ktsmith »

gowld wrote: post #146
ktsmith wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers often have no say in wether homework is assigned. The district in which my wife teaches and my son attends had a mandatory homework policy put in place by the school board. In addition to mandating that homework be assigned Monday through Thursday they specify that it should contain at least 10 minutes of reading per grade level (10 for k, 20 for 1st, 30 for 2nd, etc) as well as additional materials for othe…

"reading" is technically homework but not the kind of homework that education researchers are opposed to. The bad kind of homework is loaded down worksheets and projects that are high-stakes (perform or fail) and prone to cheating. Telling students to read has none of these problems, it's purely for the student's benefit and has no penalty attacked.

In this case the reading is in addition to other homework. So if you are in 3rd grade you are expected to read for 40 minutes and also complete some other tasks. This might be math worksheets, projects or something else. So for my child for example he was getting homework that took about 20 minutes in addition to his required 40 minutes of reading. My niece would routinely have 90 minutes of homework in addition to her 40 minutes of reading and her brother would have usually around 40 minutes of homework on top of his 60 minutes of reading. I'm not sure when they are expected to go outside and play or do their other after school activities with a full day of school and all the additional work at home.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#156

Post by linuxftw »

mikec3010 wrote: post #125
linuxftw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a symptom that today's children don't have the same type of bond with their peers as previous generations. Yesteryear, kids would have discussed classwork with their friends and classmates. All socialization has been removed from classrooms, outside of 'group activities.' The only people they know how to talk to are their parents.

> The only people they know how to talk to are their parents. I believe it. This gets brought up often here, but when you drive through residential neighborhoods you don't see kids playing or travelling to their friend's houses anymore. Either people are having way fewer kids or they aren't allowed to do things autonomously anymore. This undoubtedly correlates with rising obesity. But instead of blaming lack of play,…

No, it's sadly a complete lack of kid autonomy around me. Kids aren't afforded any independence around here until mid-teens (15+). I think walking more than a few doors down is absolutely out of the question for most kids these days.

More and more kids are driven to school each day. The school bus was another socialization place for kids that is gone.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#157

Post by gowld »

privacypoller wrote: post #46
burfog wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a slightly different way to interpret that. Some students, despite being in your classroom, are really being homeschooled. For example, my wife and I both got extra assignments from our parents. The parents aren't just helping. The parents are teaching. You aren't trusted to teach. Other students have parents that trust you to teach. Your job is to teach, and these parents expect you to do it. In theory, the…

Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but I'm in Canada where we generally have good teachers. The problem we're experiencing is a curriculum that we feel is becoming easier over time and shifting away from core fundamentals. Teachers are powerless to oppose or address this, regardless of how they personally feel or want to teach. Should my 10-yr-old learn coping strategies for anxiety? absolutely, but she should als…

I don't know Canada, but in the USA:

> learning some Canadian and World geography

Social studies is not part of the multi-state standard, but part of (for example) Washington State) standard

http://www.k12.wa.us/SocialStudies/pubdocs/SocialStudiesStan...

(page 14)

> multiply numbers beyond 8x

is a 3th-grade standard http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/3/NBT/

> practice word problems

in the standard http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/4/OA/

> and logic problems

This sort of "math enrichment" subject area is a major gap in public education.

> and understand that computers

this is hit-and-miss and mostly ignored by standards, but the standard does get into some pencil-and-paper type algorithmics

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/4/OA/#CCSS.Math.Co...

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/5/OA/

Of course, quality of instruction varies school by school.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#158

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

gowld wrote: post #147
bunderbunder wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time they're in high school, they'll be doing more reading per night than I was doing while working on my master's. After devoting so much time to education theater, do the kids even have any energy leftover to put into actual learning?

When did reading become "education theater" ? I hope your master wasn't in statistics, because you made a poor extrapolation from data.

Reading that's strictly there because you have to isn't going to engender a love of reading, it's going to smother it. I also doubt that it'll be effective at teaching the skill of reading - it'll be works that ignored from those who don't care to do it.

I read because I loved it and was exposed to it at a young age from home, not because school required me to read.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#159

Post by bunderbunder »

gowld wrote: post #153
bunderbunder wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the idea behind an inverted classroom model is to try and smooth over those problems. If a kid has a home environment that's not conducive to concentration, but they're just reading or watching videos or whatever in that time, then the damage is fairly limited and is something the teacher will get a chance to smooth over the next day. Whereas if they're supposed to be working on homework during that tim…

The unspoken distinction you are making is that high-stakes homework is the problem. > Taylorist nightmare that US schools have become What's this? Schools have migrated toward standardized testing uber alles, not homework/classroom grades. Are you referring to the grade-level standards that don't allow students to progress at their own pace below grade level? That's not really a matter of homework vs not -- if a stu…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylorism

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#160

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

btilly wrote: post #111
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it should contain at least 10 minutes of reading per grade level Dear god, by the time a kid is in grade 5 or 6 they've lost an hour a night to reading alone. In my experience homework was rarely of use - the in class practice was enough, and home time was for the fun you didn't have while in school.

What homework does is lets the school tell parents, "Your kid's test scores may suck, but you can see that we are trying everything that we can." In other words, they prioritize visible effort over achieved results.

Yup "we're sapping the joy of life from your kid, clearly their not learning isn't OUR problem".
Post reply on HN