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Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

cloud.google.com

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Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#71

Post by empath75 »

dcosson wrote: post #13
dewitt wrote: post #8

Thanks to everyone who played a part of this! The Google team is also watching this thread. Happy to answer any questions people have.

This looks really cool, I'll definitely be looking into it more closely when I get a chance. Obviously this is a conflict of interest for Google, but just curious if you know of any plans in the works for being able to run this on AWS EKS? It's the obvious omission from the list of supported clouds on the installation page[0]. [0] https://github.com/knative/docs/tree/master/install

There seems to be a problem with istio working on EKS, actually -- i'm getting a timeout to the sidecar injector: same issue as this: https://github.com/istio/old_issues_repo/issues/271

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#72

Post by jacques_chester »

mfer wrote: post #59

I have a few questions. > Knative provides a set of middleware components that are essential to build modern, source-centric, and container-based applications that can run anywhere Are these middleware components that someone else is supposed to package together into something useful like a platform? The other bits lead me to think it's a platform of sorts in itself. So, why the talk of middleware? > Knative offers a…

> Are these middleware components that someone else is supposed to package together into something useful like a platform? The other bits lead me to think it's a platform of sorts in itself. So, why the talk of middleware?

It's intended to be usable as a single installation with the option to install individual parts. The textbook case is Build -- you can get things done with or without it.

> Are these reusable components supposed to be packaged in a higher level system? It sounds like that but other parts of the page suggest it's a platform to use now.

I think a bit of both. The joke I've made is that if Kubernetes is IaaS++, Knative is PaaS--. It's usable as-is, it aims to provide a common set of primitives for shared concerns, but it can also serve as a base for higher-level systems. The Project riff team, for example, have pushed some of their efforts down into Knative.

> In my experience they like shorter form ones (there are numerous tools making that possible).

Mine too. My personal view is that Build (and before long Pipelines) will be the main entryway to Knative.

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#73

Post by jacques_chester »

lima wrote: post #56

They say Red Hat is involved. How does this relate to OpenShift? I really hope that, for instance, Knative's builder will be merged with Red Hat's source-to-image (S2I) builder.

The current Build design allows for a relatively straightforward extension to use S2I as a BuildTemplate. You can see other examples here: https://github.com/knative/build-templates

As and when Builds becomes Pipelines, I anticipate that it will remain relatively trivial to integrate existing build infrastructure without too much fuss.

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#75

Post by gdsdfe »

peterwwillis wrote: post #52
gdsdfe wrote: post #10

I kinda have a hard time understanding what it is ... is it kinda a 'glue' layer between Kubernetes and istio ? Can somebody give us a 2 sentences explanation? please and thank you

Can someone also give us a 20 sentences explanation on how it works, or an example installation? "It does magic" still leaves me wondering if this is worth investigating.

You basically have a git repo that contains your business logic implemented as 'functions' and some configuration : knative will build, containerize, deploy, and glue/route those functions for you to make it a full fledged app. it will also take care of load balancing/scaling etc. So all you need really is focus on you business logic code and write some config for knative ... well this is at least the vision

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#77

Post by dewitt »

jacques_chester wrote: post #72
mfer wrote: post #59

I have a few questions. > Knative provides a set of middleware components that are essential to build modern, source-centric, and container-based applications that can run anywhere Are these middleware components that someone else is supposed to package together into something useful like a platform? The other bits lead me to think it's a platform of sorts in itself. So, why the talk of middleware? > Knative offers a…

> Are these middleware components that someone else is supposed to package together into something useful like a platform? The other bits lead me to think it's a platform of sorts in itself. So, why the talk of middleware? It's intended to be usable as a single installation with the option to install individual parts. The textbook case is Build -- you can get things done with or without it. > Are these reusable compo…

Just to amplify jacques_chester's reply, yes, we do see products being built on Knative components. Google is doing that (serverless container support in GCF, serverless add-on in GKE), and you can see similar announcements being made from partners in this thread.

These are early days of course, but given that the goal is to codify the commonalities (the 80% we all do roughly the same anyway) and to improve customer workload portability overall, I hope to see new products built using Knative, and existing products re-base on Knative as well.

Good questions, btw!

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#78

Post by TuringNYC »

markusthoemmes wrote: post #5

Joining in, Markus from IBM and OpenWhisk. Been involved with knative for quite some time now as well. Happy to answer any questions that might arise as well. Answers might be biased and opinions are my own. See IBM's statement: https://www.ibm.com/blogs/cloud-computing/2018/07/24/ibm-clo...

@markusthoemmes could you kindly comment on how OpenWhiskKnative interact or live together or side by side

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#79

Post by jhabdas »

otterley wrote: post #64
dewitt wrote: post #8

Thanks to everyone who played a part of this! The Google team is also watching this thread. Happy to answer any questions people have.

Can we see a design document/theory of operations, please? It’s difficult to evaluate this effort without understanding exactly what it is - namely, the constituent components, their respective functions, how they work and relate to one another, etc. Just a comment here about this in general - given all the resources at Google’s disposal, I’m perplexed as to why we don’t see world-class (or even at least halfway dece…

So you found the Zipkin UI link in the Microsoft GitHub docs already?

Re: Knative – Kubernetes-based platform to manage modern serverless workloads

#80

Post by gdsdfe »

velominati wrote: post #58
gdsdfe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ahh so you just worry about your business logic, which will be a bunch of 'functions', and knative will take care of routing, deployment, load etc. ?

It isn't limited to functions. Knative can run containerees, or with a build system take full app code and deploy it as a container.

so it can be anything really ... hmm
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