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The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

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Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#121

Post by sli »

fatnoah wrote: post #114
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it should contain at least 10 minutes of reading per grade level Dear god, by the time a kid is in grade 5 or 6 they've lost an hour a night to reading alone. In my experience homework was rarely of use - the in class practice was enough, and home time was for the fun you didn't have while in school.

As the parent of a smart 10 year old with ADHD, homework has actually been invaluable. We use the larger assignments to help him learn to manage his time and attention level. For example, we take a 5 minute scooter break after 20 minutes of work. For very large assignments, we also break things up into manageable chunks. The homework is also very useful to have a chance to review topics and ensure understanding of th…

I wouldn't say they're ancillary, most of what you said is the claimed benefit of homework (regardless of the correctness of that claim). I'd say you're mostly using the homework as a guide for tutoring, which isn't something that actually requires homework to be assigned by the school if you're willing to be proactive.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#122

Post by nybble41 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #103
nybble41 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that parents (or legal guardians) should be held liable for damage caused by their minor children, period, without claiming that parents have an obligation to monitor their children 24/7. The degree of surveillance is up to the parents, and I agree that continuous monitoring would tend to stifle development, but that does not remove the parents' liability. Someone has to pay for the damages, and it woul…

> I would argue that parents (or legal guardians) should be held liable for damage caused by their minor children, period, without claiming that parents have an obligation to monitor their children 24/7. The idea that having children should be treated as a strict liability tort is...unusual. Without that treatment, the damages would need to stem from some other tort by the parent (such as negligence by failure to rea…

> The idea that having children should be treated as a strict liability tort is...unusual.

Yes, but that isn't what I was saying. "Having children" is not the tort. Damaging others' property is the tort. The parents are liable because it was their child that caused the damage. The child is their responsibility. What the child does, they did.

> or a tort by the child with a rule that parents are liable for the children's torts

Yes, exactly this.

> That's who usually pays for damages not resulting from some failure of a legal duty...

The legal duty which was failed in this case is the duty to not damage others' property. (You do have that, right? Or are property owners simply expected to absorb the cost of accidental damage no matter who was responsible?)

> Well, that's an alternative...

I argue that it is the only viable alternative. Why would property owners voluntarily accept liability for the actions of other people's children without some form of compensation? But we don't want this alternative, because it means 24/7 surveillance and stunted development—not out of legal obligation but simply because unsupervised children would have nowhere to go.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#123

Post by fatnoah »

dragontamer wrote: post #19
jimhefferon wrote: post #2

I teach in a college. Many's the time I've been waiting to get into a classroom because the folks in there are wrapping up an exam, and students come out, instantly produce the phone, and I hear, "Hi mom, I did OK on the quiz, I think ..." That's too much.

I don't see anything wrong with a kid (or even an adult) having a strong relationship with their parents. I had a flatmate who talked with her mom every night. Literally every night. For hours. She was just close with her family. It wasn't like she was at school or anything, we were both grown adults with working lives.

My wife calls her parents every day for a few minutes. I talk to my mom once every couple weeks or an hour or two. Two sides of the same coin.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#124

Post by marcell »

btilly wrote: post #83
christofosho wrote: post #11

As a teacher of ages 4 up until 14, I think parents and people in general need to be concious toward what constitutes "over" parenting. Too often we as teachers see students that are behaving poorly, or having more trouble in school, because they do not have enough help or consistency at home. Parents reading articles like this might take them too literally and step too far from their child's life. Parenting should b…

Let me turn this around. As a parent, I think that teachers should pay attention to research on homework that says there is on average no academic benefit, but there is a huge cost in family conflict. You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time. Free family time up for what parents see best.

> there is on average no academic benefit

What? This sounds BS. If you don’t practice what you learn in school, how will you ever master it? Eg. How will you learn integration if you don’t do some practice problems?

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#125

Post by mikec3010 »

linuxftw wrote: post #38
jimhefferon wrote: post #2

I teach in a college. Many's the time I've been waiting to get into a classroom because the folks in there are wrapping up an exam, and students come out, instantly produce the phone, and I hear, "Hi mom, I did OK on the quiz, I think ..." That's too much.

I think this is a symptom that today's children don't have the same type of bond with their peers as previous generations. Yesteryear, kids would have discussed classwork with their friends and classmates. All socialization has been removed from classrooms, outside of 'group activities.' The only people they know how to talk to are their parents.

> The only people they know how to talk to are their parents.

I believe it. This gets brought up often here, but when you drive through residential neighborhoods you don't see kids playing or travelling to their friend's houses anymore. Either people are having way fewer kids or they aren't allowed to do things autonomously anymore. This undoubtedly correlates with rising obesity. But instead of blaming lack of play, they blame junk food.

I recently drove past a middle school (12-14 yo) and shuddered at the sight of each child walking straight from the door to their parents car, one at a time, like prisoners. When that car pulled away the next car stopped at the same spot before the next child was dismissed. Just a few years prior, all kids were released simultaneously.

I think this is eroding our society.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#126

Post by btilly »

fatnoah wrote: post #114
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it should contain at least 10 minutes of reading per grade level Dear god, by the time a kid is in grade 5 or 6 they've lost an hour a night to reading alone. In my experience homework was rarely of use - the in class practice was enough, and home time was for the fun you didn't have while in school.

As the parent of a smart 10 year old with ADHD, homework has actually been invaluable. We use the larger assignments to help him learn to manage his time and attention level. For example, we take a 5 minute scooter break after 20 minutes of work. For very large assignments, we also break things up into manageable chunks. The homework is also very useful to have a chance to review topics and ensure understanding of th…

As the parent of a smart 13 year old with somewhat serious ADHD and a complex home environment (divorced, remarried, 2 houses, multiple children around), homework has been an unmitigated disaster. The best thing about his going on an IEP was that we could get a no homework policy for him. This immediately improved his grades, reduced stress, and made his attitude towards school improve.

So mileage does vary on these things. By a lot.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#127

Post by 1996 »

fatnoah wrote: post #120
1996 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the contrary, a nanny will not just keep them nourished and on schedule, but also provide emotional comfort and educational activities. It is less frequent now in the west, but in many countries kids are raised by nannies or relatives. Kids get very attached to their nannies- see Mary Poppins. It is a fictional tale, but it shows you how it was also the case in the West. If your expectations are limted to keepi…

>Quite the contrary, a nanny will not just keep them nourished and on schedule, but also provide emotional comfort and educational activities. When my son was younger, we had a part-time nanny (about 15 hours/week) who was simply wonderful. She was always "present", focused on enrichment, and truly loved our son. Even though she hasn't been our nanny for many years, we still keep in touch and occasionally get togethe…

Exactly why I suggested asking the butler! Solid references matter a lot

I have also had a great experience - as a kid. There was a strong emotional and learning component. I have very fond memories.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#128

Post by fatnoah »

finaliteration wrote: post #18

It’s a difficult balance to strike and it’s easy to judge parents either way. I’m plenty guilty of being on both sides as a parent. My particular challenge, however, stems from PTSD from childhood abuse and neglect, so I feel even -more- pressure to give my child everything she needs and wants because I don’t want her to feel as alone and unwanted as I did. But I do worry that comes at the price of her independence,…

>so I feel even -more- pressure to give my child everything she needs and wants because I don’t want her to feel as alone and unwanted as I did

This is a tough one because I think how we parent is super-strongly influenced by our experiences as a child. I think the keys here are to make sure she knows that you love and support her no matter what and that's as much of a given as that the sun will rise in the east AND to support her on doing things for herself.

It's one thing if you're there to provide encouragement or a bit of help doing something vs. telling her to get it done and walking away. She'll learn the least from having everything on a whim or you doing everything for her. If the answer is "no" discuss why. Be fair and not capricious. Kids are smart. They know the difference between a parent that doesn't care and a parent that's setting limits.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#129

Post by mikec3010 »

JTbane wrote: post #88

The eternal debate continues between the "overbearing fascist helicopter parents" and the "free-parenting grossly negligent degenerates". (I have no horse in this race and find these pieces interesting nonetheless)

Controversy sells/generates clicks. Nobody wants to read a well-reasoned, balanced article when they're jonesing for that next micro-dose of e-dopamine.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#130

Post by finaliteration »

fatnoah wrote: post #128
finaliteration wrote: post #18

It’s a difficult balance to strike and it’s easy to judge parents either way. I’m plenty guilty of being on both sides as a parent. My particular challenge, however, stems from PTSD from childhood abuse and neglect, so I feel even -more- pressure to give my child everything she needs and wants because I don’t want her to feel as alone and unwanted as I did. But I do worry that comes at the price of her independence,…

>so I feel even -more- pressure to give my child everything she needs and wants because I don’t want her to feel as alone and unwanted as I did This is a tough one because I think how we parent is super-strongly influenced by our experiences as a child. I think the keys here are to make sure she knows that you love and support her no matter what and that's as much of a given as that the sun will rise in the east AND…

> It's one thing if you're there to provide encouragement or a bit of help doing something vs. telling her to get it done and walking away.

The former is definitely my approach. I never just dump her into a situation and ignore her, nor do I do everything for her. For example, cleaning up around the house is a joint effort. And arguments and power struggles are always followed up by reconciliation and reassurance that I still love her despite us being angry at each other.

My biggest struggle is not knowing whether a punishment or correction is too severe (because all of the ones I received were), so I tend to be more lenient in a lot of situations where maybe I shouldn’t be.

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