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The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

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Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#91

Post by idoh »

laurieg wrote: post #58

As someone considering starting a family, I have literally no idea what parenting is anymore. When I was younger I was pretty much left to my own devices, sent off to play with my brother and then packed off to school when old enough. My parents were too busy working, cooking and cleaning to do much fancy extra curricular stuff. I do wonder now what I should be doing to prepare for parenthood. I feel that perhaps it'…

Something that worked for me: survey the parents that you know, and find the ones that seem like they are doing a good job and enjoying themselves. Then get a download of their system, write it down, ask questions, and form a plan. Don't take advice from parents that seem worn down or miserable.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#92

Post by hannob »

christofosho wrote: post #11

As a teacher of ages 4 up until 14, I think parents and people in general need to be concious toward what constitutes "over" parenting. Too often we as teachers see students that are behaving poorly, or having more trouble in school, because they do not have enough help or consistency at home. Parents reading articles like this might take them too literally and step too far from their child's life. Parenting should b…

> Parent involvement leads to more academic confidence and success[1],[...] > [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020099/

Half-OT, but you're making a textbook logical error in interpreting the science you're citing. This is an observational study, making claims about associations, yet you clearly indicate a causal effect in your words.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#93

Post by btilly »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #85
btilly wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me turn this around. As a parent, I think that teachers should pay attention to research on homework that says there is on average no academic benefit, but there is a huge cost in family conflict. You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time. Free family time up for what parents see best.

As a semi-academic, practice supervision sounds like a horrible use of limited teacher/classroom time. But I guess that is true at the high end (in universities and higher performing kids) but not at the lower end where professional practice supervision is much more necessary.

Actually you are dead wrong on that.

Homework is unsupervised extra practice. Extra practice is helpful if done right, harmful if done wrong. When done unsupervised it go either way.

According to research, school homework on average is neutral, but when you dig in is helpful to harmful depending on the educational support that the parents can supply. So it helps rich kids, hurts poor ones, depending on how well the parents can teach.

For a book-length treatment of the issue, including references to relevant studies, see https://www.alfiekohn.org/homework-myth/.

That book doesn't go into the university level, but there the situation is simple. There is not enough lecture time to actually teach the material fully, so supervised practice is not an option. So homework is the only option, and it is your problem if you can't figure out how to supervise yourself.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#94

Post by grkvlt »

fosco wrote: post #32
burfog wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a slightly different way to interpret that. Some students, despite being in your classroom, are really being homeschooled. For example, my wife and I both got extra assignments from our parents. The parents aren't just helping. The parents are teaching. You aren't trusted to teach. Other students have parents that trust you to teach. Your job is to teach, and these parents expect you to do it. In theory, the…

I find this perspective interesting and I think this discussion needs to be taken further as I think it is unclear on both sides what the final expectations are to be upon completion of class/grade. that being said, I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. I think that in most public schools (the one I went to) some parenting needs t…

> teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side

Isn't this exactly what teachers must do, by law? This is what the term 'in loco parentis'[0] means - they are acting as parental substitutes.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#95

Post by emiliobumachar »

georgeecollins wrote: post #90
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a semi-academic, practice supervision sounds like a horrible use of limited teacher/classroom time. But I guess that is true at the high end (in universities and higher performing kids) but not at the lower end where professional practice supervision is much more necessary.

My child goes to a very good school and they often teach math "upside down". In this method, the homework is to watch the teacher give a recorded lecture. Then, in class they work on the homework (math problems) while the teacher goes around watching them work and helping them with the parts they don't understand. He loves that method and seems to lean a lot from it.

That's great! FYI, it's called a Flipped Classroom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#96

Post by ddebernardy »

btilly wrote: post #83
christofosho wrote: post #11

As a teacher of ages 4 up until 14, I think parents and people in general need to be concious toward what constitutes "over" parenting. Too often we as teachers see students that are behaving poorly, or having more trouble in school, because they do not have enough help or consistency at home. Parents reading articles like this might take them too literally and step too far from their child's life. Parenting should b…

Let me turn this around. As a parent, I think that teachers should pay attention to research on homework that says there is on average no academic benefit, but there is a huge cost in family conflict. You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time. Free family time up for what parents see best.

I'm no homework fan either, but in teachers' defense, when they don't assign much or any homework, the unfortunate outcome is that they get flamed by some parents (not all) for not giving more of it.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#97

Post by ameister14 »

btilly wrote: post #83
christofosho wrote: post #11

As a teacher of ages 4 up until 14, I think parents and people in general need to be concious toward what constitutes "over" parenting. Too often we as teachers see students that are behaving poorly, or having more trouble in school, because they do not have enough help or consistency at home. Parents reading articles like this might take them too literally and step too far from their child's life. Parenting should b…

Let me turn this around. As a parent, I think that teachers should pay attention to research on homework that says there is on average no academic benefit, but there is a huge cost in family conflict. You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time. Free family time up for what parents see best.

There's actually another way entirely to do it - have the time in class for working and have the time after for actively learning. So the students read and learn new concepts at home and practice them in group settings at school. Unfortunately, that depends on the home environment being conducive to learning.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#98

Post by war1025 »

smileysteve wrote: post #76
war1025 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be present. That's about the sum total of it I think. If you are there, you will pick up on what is and isn't working, and you can work to make it better. Really kids just want someone to love them and teach them how to be a person.

I think that the books and article argue how present you should be. Which is where the above question comes from. Kids need to fall, need to be able to solve things without parents nearby to be able to grow and make responsible decisions.

I guess to me "Teach them how to be a person" includes letting them make their own mistakes and giving them the space to develop the ability to make responsible decisions.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#99

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

ktsmith wrote: post #86
btilly wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me turn this around. As a parent, I think that teachers should pay attention to research on homework that says there is on average no academic benefit, but there is a huge cost in family conflict. You have enough time in the classroom to teach and provide practice time. Free family time up for what parents see best.

Teachers often have no say in wether homework is assigned. The district in which my wife teaches and my son attends had a mandatory homework policy put in place by the school board. In addition to mandating that homework be assigned Monday through Thursday they specify that it should contain at least 10 minutes of reading per grade level (10 for k, 20 for 1st, 30 for 2nd, etc) as well as additional materials for othe…

> it should contain at least 10 minutes of reading per grade level

Dear god, by the time a kid is in grade 5 or 6 they've lost an hour a night to reading alone. In my experience homework was rarely of use - the in class practice was enough, and home time was for the fun you didn't have while in school.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#100

Post by naasking »

georgeecollins wrote: post #90
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a semi-academic, practice supervision sounds like a horrible use of limited teacher/classroom time. But I guess that is true at the high end (in universities and higher performing kids) but not at the lower end where professional practice supervision is much more necessary.

My child goes to a very good school and they often teach math "upside down". In this method, the homework is to watch the teacher give a recorded lecture. Then, in class they work on the homework (math problems) while the teacher goes around watching them work and helping them with the parts they don't understand. He loves that method and seems to lean a lot from it.

I thought this was a brilliant idea when I first heard of this approach. It's obviously the correct way to instruct, because the instructor is available to assist when you're actually doing the work where the most frustration and education happens.

Students also need to write down questions about the lecture they didn't understand, which mandates some effort towards integrating understanding before practice the following day.

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