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Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

nytimes.com

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Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#61

Post by colanderman »

dsabanin wrote: post #4

I'm curious. Quotes from the article: -- “It happens pretty much all the time if there is a strong rainfall or a storm,” The phenomenon is not confined to the Dominican Republic, he said, and can be seen in many developing nations with a coastline. “Everybody uses the rivers and the beaches as dump sites.” -- So we're being told that ocean's plastic garbage patch is somehow made out of the contents of landfills aroun…

Feelings aside, 46% of the garbage in the patch is discarded fishing material: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/great-pacific-garb...

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#62

Post by Alupis »

I've wondered for a time, why we put so much energy into banning certain plastic items, instead of improving biodegradable plastic technologies in conjunction with efficient trash sorting at waste management plants.

If we can replace most plastics with biodegradable forms, a large part of these issues go away completely within our lifetime; plastics decomposing in as little as 24 months![1]

> According to a 2010 EPA report, 12.4%, or 31 million tons, of all municipal solid waste (MSW) is plastic. 8.2% of that, or 2.55 million tons, were recovered[1]

A large part of our recycling problem is that it's entirely dependent on people doing the right thing and putting recyclable materials in the correct bin. Why not have machines that can sort recyclables from true decompostable trash? Plastics tend to float, glass tends to sink, tin and many other metals are magnetic... etc. Removing a dependence on people to remember what's recyclable and where to dispose of used items would be a huge win for the environment.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodegradable_plastic

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#63

Post by jbob2000 »

ksenzee wrote: post #38
gfo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? It's a step forward, a small one at that, but it's progress. I don't understand those complaining - they usually fall back to people with disabilities, and yet establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks.

> establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks Not everywhere, they won't. Santa Barbara just passed a straw ban without any exceptions for disabled people who actually need plastic straws. In other places, it's still legal for restaurants to keep straws around for those who need them, but the restaurants don't all know that. From what I can tell, reading what straw-using disabled people have to say…

How hard is it to carry a metal straw with you? You hear news about the ban, and you put a couple plastic ones in your bag until the metal one from amazon arrives.

Why are people so helpless? Jesus christ, it takes half a second to figure out this solution for yourself.

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#64

Post by robotrout »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #55
mjfern wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This photo is surreal. I can't believe a trash filled planet is becoming a reality and we are doing little to nothing to stop it.

Human nature being what it is, it's inevitable. Making it about personal responsibility to recycle and dispose tidily is guaranteeing a tragedy of the commons. This frees manufacturers to create ever more packaging crap and chase an extra fraction of a cent. Only way to stop it is to go back to packaging that decomposes or is inert like glass which soon loses the sharp edges.

We need to get back to paper/cardboard packaging. Trees can be and are farmed. You can use as much paper as you want and never run out of trees.

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#65

Post by [deleted] »

toast_coder wrote: post #16
pulse7 wrote: post #2

Most probably created in China, used on the West then dumped in the sea...

In the 'west' or more specifically in the United States dump trash in rivers or in the ocean is hight legal and hight risky. You would very likely be caught if you did it with any frequency. It gets old blaming America for problems America doesnt cause, and diminishes all of your future blame America comments. Also, read the article...

[deleted]

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#66

Post by ksenzee »

jbob2000 wrote: post #63
ksenzee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks Not everywhere, they won't. Santa Barbara just passed a straw ban without any exceptions for disabled people who actually need plastic straws. In other places, it's still legal for restaurants to keep straws around for those who need them, but the restaurants don't all know that. From what I can tell, reading what straw-using disabled people have to say…

How hard is it to carry a metal straw with you? You hear news about the ban, and you put a couple plastic ones in your bag until the metal one from amazon arrives. Why are people so helpless? Jesus christ, it takes half a second to figure out this solution for yourself.

How hard is it to carry some TP with you? NBD, right? So you wouldn't mind having to take your own with you everywhere you go?

> Why are people so helpless?

I... you are literally talking about disabled people. A decent society should have some care for the needs of these people, and not ignore them when they tell us what is important to them.

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#67

Post by justinator »

mc32 wrote: post #36
justinator wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic recycling isn't. It's just a scheme to move the waste somewhere else (China) and make Westerners feel good about not having to change their wasteful lifestyles. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17368168

That explains some but not the nile or ganges, mekong, etc. China is “good” about dumping compared to others outside NE Asia.

I don't disagree that the recycling infrastructure isn't there, just that it doesn't do anything, except ship plastic from landfills in the west, to landfills in the east.

Since the infrastructure isn't there for these developing countries, it goes not into landfills anywhere, but into the oceans.

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#68

Post by dragonwriter »

ksenzee wrote: post #38
gfo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? It's a step forward, a small one at that, but it's progress. I don't understand those complaining - they usually fall back to people with disabilities, and yet establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks.

> establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks Not everywhere, they won't. Santa Barbara just passed a straw ban without any exceptions for disabled people who actually need plastic straws. In other places, it's still legal for restaurants to keep straws around for those who need them, but the restaurants don't all know that. From what I can tell, reading what straw-using disabled people have to say…

> Santa Barbara just passed a straw ban without any exceptions for disabled people who actually need plastic straws

Reusable straws (both plastic and metal) are available, as are paper and non-paper compostable straws. I don't know of any disability that requires people to use single-use-but-stays-around-forever straws.

If businesses aren't accommodating disabled patrons with any of the legal, readily available, reasonable solutions available, that seems like an ADA issue, though anyone who needs or wants straw should probably be proactive in preparing themselves in case facilities fail, which is simple enough to do.

I suspect the problems here are transition issues that'll disappear fairly soon (and will probably be dealt with better in the future as new jurisdictions adopt bans but have the benefit of seeing where the transition was rocky in the early places.)

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#69

Post by t3po7re5 »

kaybe wrote: post #53
sattoshi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statistic shows that as NA or EU residents, what we do basically does not matter. The plastic waste of Asia will only grow. What we can do is focus on the cleanliness of our local communities as that is the only place where we can have an effect. But on the global scale, unless if we manage to strongarm Asia into behaving, it's borderline meaningless.

What would help is to develop a material that is just as good as plastic (or better), degrades easily and is cheaper as well, and then wait for them to copy. Germany basically did this for solar energy.

I think the issue is no matter what policies are adapted outside of Asia, the current status of ocean plastics will remain until Asian countries modify their internal policies.

Re: Wave After Wave of Garbage Hits the Dominican Republic

#70

Post by bpicolo »

Shivetya wrote: post #59
mjfern wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This photo is surreal. I can't believe a trash filled planet is becoming a reality and we are doing little to nothing to stop it.

Please, the Western world is doing a lot of work in keeping it out of water ways and oceans. The majority of trash is from China and other Asian countries. [1] What can we do? Simple, this is where trade requirements include treating the environment right. We already have restrictions on seafood harvesting and protecting certain species like whales and dolphins. no reason we cannot hold trade to require proper handli…

To be fair, part of the way we "take care" of it is by shipping a bunch of it's trash to China [0].

[0] https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/why-china-isnt-taking-amer...

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