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The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

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Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#61

Post by ginko »

bunderbunder wrote: post #34
tehabe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is colourful, but the reporter was a parent too and neighbours wondered why they let their children play unsupervised outside. In Germany a court just ruled that a three year old can go alone to the bath room and their parents don't have to check on them. The child set the bath room under water and someone wanted the parents to be liable. Also some years ago, I saw a video from a school parking lot, wher…

With how US geography is, it would be impossible in most communities to build schools such that kids can easily go there by themselves. Even in cities of >250,000 people, it's common for there to be no sidewalks, and possibly not even any proper crosswalks, such that it's very difficult to get around without driving a car. In denser cities, though, you do tend to see neighborhood schools instead of larger, more centr…

> Even in cities of >250,000 people, it's common for there to be no sidewalks, and possibly not even any proper crosswalks

This seems like a failure at city planning. Anyways shouldn't there be a school bus?

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#62

Post by tehabe »

Steltek wrote: post #48
tehabe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is colourful, but the reporter was a parent too and neighbours wondered why they let their children play unsupervised outside. In Germany a court just ruled that a three year old can go alone to the bath room and their parents don't have to check on them. The child set the bath room under water and someone wanted the parents to be liable. Also some years ago, I saw a video from a school parking lot, wher…

> In Germany a court just ruled that a three year old can go alone to the bath room and their parents don't have to check on them. The child set the bath room under water and someone wanted the parents to be liable. Seems like the alternative is to declare the 3yo liable for the damage, which is absurd. Water like that can cause a lot of damage; it's not like they tipped over a glass on the table.

They wanted the parents to be liable for the damage, claiming they have breached their obligatory supervision to the child.

The judge said that the parents are not obligated to surveillance their child 24/7 in the flat as it would hinder the development of the child.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#63

Post by dragonwriter »

analog31 wrote: post #54
nugget wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would you recommend for potential parents who don't have the years of hands-on experience that your wife had?

Be born with genes for incredible self discipline and emotional stamina, and your kids are likely to be born with those genes as well. In fact, all the books I read said that you have to apply the techniques with total consistency and regularity, or the method doesn't work. That's something I'm utterly incapable of doing.

> In fact, all the books I read said that you have to apply the techniques with total consistency and regularity, or the method doesn't work.

Note that's long been a line used when people are selling stuff they know doesn't work, because people don't do much of anything with total consistency and regularity, so when the inevitable failures occur, you've pre-biased the buyer of your woo to find an excuse to blame themselves, rather than the snake-oil you sold them.

Even if it's not knowing fraud, any parenting approach that doesn't accommodate and specifically address the reality that parents are fallible isn't going to work with real people very well, even if it might work for the mythical beasts it must be designed for.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#64

Post by war1025 »

laurieg wrote: post #58

As someone considering starting a family, I have literally no idea what parenting is anymore. When I was younger I was pretty much left to my own devices, sent off to play with my brother and then packed off to school when old enough. My parents were too busy working, cooking and cleaning to do much fancy extra curricular stuff. I do wonder now what I should be doing to prepare for parenthood. I feel that perhaps it'…

Be present. That's about the sum total of it I think. If you are there, you will pick up on what is and isn't working, and you can work to make it better.

Really kids just want someone to love them and teach them how to be a person.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#65

Post by pnathan »

laurieg wrote: post #58

As someone considering starting a family, I have literally no idea what parenting is anymore. When I was younger I was pretty much left to my own devices, sent off to play with my brother and then packed off to school when old enough. My parents were too busy working, cooking and cleaning to do much fancy extra curricular stuff. I do wonder now what I should be doing to prepare for parenthood. I feel that perhaps it'…

Advice from someone who is a year and a half in: find a volunteer opportunity with the under 3 set, at least weekly, with your partner. The opportunity should include diaper changes and serious interaction with the parents, watching them interact as a triad/dyad with the neonate.

Unless you have had regular interaction with the 0-3 set and how people raise them, you won't know what you're getting into, and you won't have the right perspective.

n.b., I think it is something that can be written down, to a large extent, but you won't find it in the "parenting guide" section, you'd find it in the clinical guide texts for professional nurses and parenting educators.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#66

Post by fosco »

ergothus wrote: post #44
fosco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this perspective interesting and I think this discussion needs to be taken further as I think it is unclear on both sides what the final expectations are to be upon completion of class/grade. that being said, I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. I think that in most public schools (the one I went to) some parenting needs t…

The "teachers shouldn't parent; parents stopped parenting" lesson is one I've heard from more than a few. What if teachers ALWAYS "parented", and as societies grow more tolerant and diverse this obviously doesn't scale (parents disagree with teachers on what should be taught). Thus we decide on this image of teachers giving knowledge and means of learning, while parents give morals and social structures. But has this…

this is an interesting point and I think is more valid than many teachers (and adults of all flavors) want to admit due to not wanting to accept the enormous responsibility, thanks for sharing!

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#67

Post by afarrell »

privacypoller wrote: post #46
burfog wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a slightly different way to interpret that. Some students, despite being in your classroom, are really being homeschooled. For example, my wife and I both got extra assignments from our parents. The parents aren't just helping. The parents are teaching. You aren't trusted to teach. Other students have parents that trust you to teach. Your job is to teach, and these parents expect you to do it. In theory, the…

Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but I'm in Canada where we generally have good teachers. The problem we're experiencing is a curriculum that we feel is becoming easier over time and shifting away from core fundamentals. Teachers are powerless to oppose or address this, regardless of how they personally feel or want to teach. Should my 10-yr-old learn coping strategies for anxiety? absolutely, but she should als…

I notice that The things you list are things that can learn online from youtube and video games.

- Geography Now: https://youtu.be/DxxZOsfsIUM

- Crash Course Computer Science: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6...

- 6.004 EdX: https://www.edx.org/course/computation-structures-part-1-dig...

- Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Sid Meyer’s Pirates, Railroad Tycoon, bunches of kids games teach geography or arithmetic

Whereas there isn’t really a good digital experience you can build to teach brain-management skills... or is there?

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#68

Post by dragonwriter »

Steltek wrote: post #48
tehabe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is colourful, but the reporter was a parent too and neighbours wondered why they let their children play unsupervised outside. In Germany a court just ruled that a three year old can go alone to the bath room and their parents don't have to check on them. The child set the bath room under water and someone wanted the parents to be liable. Also some years ago, I saw a video from a school parking lot, wher…

> In Germany a court just ruled that a three year old can go alone to the bath room and their parents don't have to check on them. The child set the bath room under water and someone wanted the parents to be liable. Seems like the alternative is to declare the 3yo liable for the damage, which is absurd. Water like that can cause a lot of damage; it's not like they tipped over a glass on the table.

> Seems like the alternative is to declare the 3yo liable for the damage

No. That's an alternative (though not a particularly sane one.) The other alternative is to accept that it's not always socially useful to give people someone to sue for every misfortune.

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#69

Post by pnathan »

jimhefferon wrote: post #2

I teach in a college. Many's the time I've been waiting to get into a classroom because the folks in there are wrapping up an exam, and students come out, instantly produce the phone, and I hear, "Hi mom, I did OK on the quiz, I think ..." That's too much.

Ah, come on, that's a bit rich. Seems reasonable (& healthy even...) to be chatting with mom about an exam coming up, then give her a ring when it's over.

Sure, if mom is still supervising, then that's a bit awkward...

Re: The 'Over-Parenting Crisis' in School and at Home (2015)

#70

Post by dragonwriter »

fosco wrote: post #32
burfog wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a slightly different way to interpret that. Some students, despite being in your classroom, are really being homeschooled. For example, my wife and I both got extra assignments from our parents. The parents aren't just helping. The parents are teaching. You aren't trusted to teach. Other students have parents that trust you to teach. Your job is to teach, and these parents expect you to do it. In theory, the…

I find this perspective interesting and I think this discussion needs to be taken further as I think it is unclear on both sides what the final expectations are to be upon completion of class/grade. that being said, I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. I think that in most public schools (the one I went to) some parenting needs t…

> I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic.

If you are an adult (or even the responsible older child), and you are supervising one or more children when their parents aren't present, you have to do the parenting side of things. It's not optional. Like, literally not optional, not merely morally not optional—if you are in that position you are standing in the place of a parent, whether you intend to be or not, and whether you do it well or not.

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