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For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

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Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#51

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

robbiep wrote: post #43
Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just weird how persistent the halucinations are.. Like if you look at a painting it will look totally different than normal, you will probably see shapes of weird things a bit like Deep Dream's terrifying faces and dogs but a bit different. You can then leave said painting for 2 hours and come back to find the painting has the exact alterations from reality as before. Because of this i'm more inclined to think t…

Wouldn’t it make more sense that LSD is a filter, and it sticks for the duration? Or at least, different lenses? This idea of ‘that’s a more real’ reality doesn’t make sense, the visualisations can be different next trip (in the situation you describe) which to me implies the opposite. Btw my favourite trip illusion/hallucination is looking at marble/granite - the veins appear to flow!

Actually haven't tripped the same place twice yet, so my pseudoscience anecdotal arguments is probably wrong.

It's certainly possible that it's a new/warped/different filter on top but for now i like the other idea better. Especially because of Deep Dream. To me it would make sense that the brain would try and find patterns(faces, animals, familiar shapes etc.) everywhere and then end up with a final image where all bad candidates have been pruned. I wouldn't call it "more real" just more unfiltered and thereby "less real" since you are sometimes seeing stuff that should have been filtered out. My favorites for illusion/hallucinations would everything organic it's just god damn fascinating. Also any type of display(tv, phone) is just mind blowing to look at.

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#52

Post by Larowyn »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #37
itchyjunk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if by 'in right now' you mean at least 7k - 9k years you might be right [0][1]. If you believe what ethnobotanist like Terence Mckenna [2] say, then it's much older and has shaped the hominids evolution quite significantly. It seems almost all cultures found local hallucinogens and exploited them heavily for ceremony, healing etc and was strong part of who they were [3]. Anecdotally, I think hallucinogen just h…

This is exactly what we mean by "kind of forced" For most of history people didn't have the free time to be regularly using drugs the way some people today imply. If your life is farming from sunrise to sunset you're gonna need a lot of sleep and there isn't much time left to be tripping balls. You'll probably only can justify using your available free time to do whatever your local drug is at special occasions, what…

That may not be true that people used to have less time. For example this article: http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/american-worker-less-vacati... state that medieval peasant had more free time than actual american worker. Did they use this time to take drug is another topic though.

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#53

Post by callesgg »

s-shellfish wrote: post #21
callesgg wrote: post #7

Makes logical sense to me. A baby has nothing but its own genetically inherited model worldview to map its sensor input to. A model worldview that is primarily concerned with faces, treats, hunger and feelings. I takes many years to map these phenomena to a fuller model of the objective world. The brain and therefore the human consciousness cannot see the world as it is; the brain gets its information through sensory…

I just feel like comparing a baby's experience to someone on lsd would likely mean language/models don't exist, therefore self doesn't exist, logic doesn't exist therefore cause and effect don't exist, or at least everything our natural vocabulary/modeling structures allows us to connect with, like you are saying. Lots of our reasoning is necessary for individual survival, but it's something we build up and learn fro…

I would assume that cause and effect is one of the few things that a baby does understand.

One one level: It might be that the baby does not understand cause and effect, but it certainly acts in relation to it.

"I cry cause i know that will cause me to feel better."

The baby don't understand the sub components of why one thing causes the other. (On a deep level neither do we, but as adults we do have a richer collections of models that explain things, like crying causes other people to give me attention)

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#54

Post by [deleted] »

wool_gather wrote: post #39
senorjazz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can confirm. Same with many of my friends. All heavy weed smokers, all used psychedelics. A worrying % went on to have some mental health issues. Now I know all the pro-weed people say "yeah but it is those pre-disposed to having schizophrenic episodes". Perhaps, but at the sample rate in my experience and others who have met later on the % is far higher than I would have expected to be. Same for just weed smoking. I…

You're putting the temporal cart before the causal horse. With or without drugs, mental health issues can be latent or unacknowledged for years. And without defending marijuana use, naïve -- even unconscious -- self-medication is a very simple explanation for what you're describing.

[deleted]

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#55

Post by Nursie »

clevershot wrote: post #4

I had LSD once when I was a young adolescent. It was by far the greatest drug related experience I ever had. So many colors, thoughts and stories. Sleeping the next day was difficult though. Afterwards, I never felt any bodily urge to take it again, but, my mind was very keen to another round. So much, that I got scared, and never did it again. Maybe I should give it another shot now that I have had babies

Few people end up taking it habitually. That's not to say none do.

I had it when I was a late teen, enjoyed it, took it again a number of times (7/8?) into my early 20s, but by the last time I just found it boring. I think most people have some fun with it and move on.

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#56

Post by [deleted] »

s-shellfish wrote: post #21
callesgg wrote: post #7

Makes logical sense to me. A baby has nothing but its own genetically inherited model worldview to map its sensor input to. A model worldview that is primarily concerned with faces, treats, hunger and feelings. I takes many years to map these phenomena to a fuller model of the objective world. The brain and therefore the human consciousness cannot see the world as it is; the brain gets its information through sensory…

I just feel like comparing a baby's experience to someone on lsd would likely mean language/models don't exist, therefore self doesn't exist, logic doesn't exist therefore cause and effect don't exist, or at least everything our natural vocabulary/modeling structures allows us to connect with, like you are saying. Lots of our reasoning is necessary for individual survival, but it's something we build up and learn fro…

[deleted]

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#57

Post by cr1895 »

hkai wrote: post #8

>Blake thought that the doors on perception are artificially kept semi-closed for cultural reasons - i.e. the ability to focus and do work for the enrichment of the powers that be. Statements like that sound a bit political and make me doubt what he is writing.

There was an outpouring of scientific research into LSD and what it might be useful for in the years following its synthesis. Towards the 70s-80s, research efforts were quashed and its use became increasingly and negatively politicized. It is inexorably political.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lysergic_acid_dieth...

I'd recommend Michael Pollan's recent book, "How to Change your Mind" if you'd like to read more.

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#58

Post by clevershot »

Nursie wrote: post #55
clevershot wrote: post #4

I had LSD once when I was a young adolescent. It was by far the greatest drug related experience I ever had. So many colors, thoughts and stories. Sleeping the next day was difficult though. Afterwards, I never felt any bodily urge to take it again, but, my mind was very keen to another round. So much, that I got scared, and never did it again. Maybe I should give it another shot now that I have had babies

Few people end up taking it habitually. That's not to say none do. I had it when I was a late teen, enjoyed it, took it again a number of times (7/8?) into my early 20s, but by the last time I just found it boring. I think most people have some fun with it and move on.

What is the worst that could happen? You hear all these stories

Asking for a friend.

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#59

Post by jjuel »

krageon wrote: post #23
hkai wrote: post #8

>Blake thought that the doors on perception are artificially kept semi-closed for cultural reasons - i.e. the ability to focus and do work for the enrichment of the powers that be. Statements like that sound a bit political and make me doubt what he is writing.

Is it really political to stop and think about what you are doing for the pure gain of someone else? I should think that's just critical thinking at work.

Not necessarily, but saying that the "doors are kept shut artificially" is something straight out of r/conspiracy.

Re: For babies, life may be like an LSD trip

#60

Post by paidleaf »

skc wrote: post #32

I don't know about an LSD trip but I've often wondered what exactly a baby perceives while in the womb or as a newborn. Their brains aren't just sitting there as a blank state so they are experiencing something. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it's very trippy seeing as infants have literally nothing to hold onto to define reality as we see it. I often watched my newborn staring off into empty space clearly perceiv…

> I don't know about an LSD trip but I've often wondered what exactly a baby perceives while in the womb or as a newborn.

I don't think they "consciously" perceive anything. But "unconsciously", we know that they perceive the mother's voice, smell, etc. They recognize words in the womb and they even react to it in the womb. And after birth, babies' prefer their mother's voice ( probably an evolutionary benefit ) over other people's voices. It's why a mother's voice has a calming/soothing effect on babies. It's pretty much trained in the womb to associate the mother's voice with safety and comfort and nourishment.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/08/babies-learn-recogniz...

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