Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 141 posts

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#31

Post by civilitty »

chrissnell wrote: post #14
joshmn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It's merely a petty move. It doesn't benefit the country, it benefits his fragile, classless ego. Has he looked or been otherwise briefed on how these mandates have crippled the American automakers? I'll be damned if he knows more than a talking point or two. Didn't you hear? Those coal miners in West Virginia with black lung disease are losing their jobs because those yuppies in California are buying e…

Not true--when CA imposes new emissions or efficiency regulations, the automakers are forced to comply to keep access to that huge market. Not wanting to design two different vehicles, they simply comply and pass the cost along to all of the buyers, whether they live in CA or not. The rest of the country has no way to directly affect the CARB's decisions. This exemption, therefore, is very unfair for the rest of us.…

The phrases you're searching for are "state's rights" and "free market capitalism."

No one is forced to do anything. Car manufacturers have the privilege of selling in California if they follow California's rules. They have decided that the privilege is worth standardizing emissions requirements everywhere in the united states.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#32

Post by [deleted] »

phs318u wrote: post #16
chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

No it doesn’t impose anything of the sort. Car manufacturers are perfectly free to not sell cars to Californians and therefore manufacture cars that don’t meet Californian regs. The reason California has those regs is precisely because they have exercised their state rights. And why should the feds be making it more or less fair for anyone? Isn’t this a free market?

[deleted]

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#33

Post by JohnTHaller »

chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

Republicans really hate the free market when it works against them. Car manufacturers are free to sell worse cars in the other states. They just want CA's money without following CA's rules.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#34

Post by saagarjha »

chrissnell wrote: post #14
joshmn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It's merely a petty move. It doesn't benefit the country, it benefits his fragile, classless ego. Has he looked or been otherwise briefed on how these mandates have crippled the American automakers? I'll be damned if he knows more than a talking point or two. Didn't you hear? Those coal miners in West Virginia with black lung disease are losing their jobs because those yuppies in California are buying e…

Not true--when CA imposes new emissions or efficiency regulations, the automakers are forced to comply to keep access to that huge market. Not wanting to design two different vehicles, they simply comply and pass the cost along to all of the buyers, whether they live in CA or not. The rest of the country has no way to directly affect the CARB's decisions. This exemption, therefore, is very unfair for the rest of us.…

The problematic equipment you're trying to dump also has a small benefit of helping the environment.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#35

Post by [deleted] »

kyrra wrote: post #7

It seems odd to me that California gets a pass to make their own rules here. I don't know the law enough, but there does seem to be some minor parallels to the sports betting SCOTUS case that was just ruled on (saying that it was illegal to have special waivers for a single state). Maybe this is different as it was a waiver by the EPA and not a law?

[deleted]

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#36

Post by elgenie »

chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

Manufacturers are perfectly free to run separate lines at their plants to make more polluting cars for other states to take advantage of this theoretical market of consumers clamoring for pollution. Also, a number of states require adherence to the California standards.

It should also be noted that California is the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world that's dramatically disenfranchised with respect to its representation in US government.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#37

Post by dahdum »

zupzupper wrote: post #17
kyrra wrote: post #7

It seems odd to me that California gets a pass to make their own rules here. I don't know the law enough, but there does seem to be some minor parallels to the sports betting SCOTUS case that was just ruled on (saying that it was illegal to have special waivers for a single state). Maybe this is different as it was a waiver by the EPA and not a law?

To be clear, the exemption has been in place since the 1970's and allows California to pass their own requirements, that meet or exceed federal requirements. We would not be allowed standards that are below federal standards, we're just allowed to be tougher on ourselves than the fed requires.

Getting downvotes for saying this, but why should California be the only state allowed to set stricter emission standards? Why not New York or Rhode Island?

I don't want standards to be rolled back, but it's hard for me to defend the principle of this waiver even if I like the outcome.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#38

Post by olivermarks »

civilitty wrote: post #26
zamalek wrote: post #2

Arnie has been pretty vocal against Trump, respectful but openly defiant. I wonder if this is disciplinary action - turning climate change is very close to Arnie's heart.

"Arnie" has absolutely nothing to do with it. California has been the critical point of failure in the conservatives' attack on the environmental regulations since the 70s. Due to the size of the California economy, CalEPA and California Air Control Board emission standards are the floor for regulatory approval, even if national EPA standards are less strict. This is nothing more than special interests dictating poli…

The planet follows California bureaucratic edicts, whether it's banning plastic shopping bags or complex legislation on vehicle or power plant emissions, California decisions define other nation states manufacturing and laws...

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#39

Post by jonathankoren »

chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

That’s not what historically has happened. Cars in California have special “California” or “50 state” emissions. You can do this economically because California is as large as a market as Canada.

Also, it’s important to know that special California emissions standards have been the case for over 50 years. Additionally, I believe 14 other states have also adopted CARB standards.

There is no economic reason to be doing this in 2018.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#40

Post by titzer »

chrissnell wrote: post #14
joshmn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It's merely a petty move. It doesn't benefit the country, it benefits his fragile, classless ego. Has he looked or been otherwise briefed on how these mandates have crippled the American automakers? I'll be damned if he knows more than a talking point or two. Didn't you hear? Those coal miners in West Virginia with black lung disease are losing their jobs because those yuppies in California are buying e…

Not true--when CA imposes new emissions or efficiency regulations, the automakers are forced to comply to keep access to that huge market. Not wanting to design two different vehicles, they simply comply and pass the cost along to all of the buyers, whether they live in CA or not. The rest of the country has no way to directly affect the CARB's decisions. This exemption, therefore, is very unfair for the rest of us.…

> It's problematic and I'd love to skip it on my next purchase.

I'd like you to go ahead and not pump a crapton of pollution into the air, thanks. Sorry for being so direct, and I would generally prefer to be more civil, but your comment strikes me as incredibly tone deaf and frankly, destructive. You are one inch away from advocating peeing in the swimming pool because it's cheaper than building toilets.

Post reply on HN