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Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

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Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#11

Post by pmichaud »

chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

I have a sense that there's something wrong here. Wrong layer of abstraction? California imposes whatever pollution regulations it wants, then it's up to the car manufacturers how to handle that. They could choose not to sell to CA residents. They could choose to make a separate line of CA-specific cars. But they choose instead to make all their cars up to CA standard because whatever, it's cheaper for them overall, and consumers will pay the extra anyway.

So there is obviously a market solution here. It seems wrong to target the CA regulation layer on this one.

Also, are we sure that it costs more on the margin to manufacture cleaner cars?

Plus, I can't help but think it's not that bad if we accidentally have cleaner cars, but that's not really a principled stance, it just worked out in this case.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#13

Post by zamalek »

mrunkel wrote: post #6
joshmn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It's merely a petty move. It doesn't benefit the country, it benefits his fragile, classless ego. Has he looked or been otherwise briefed on how these mandates have crippled the American automakers? I'll be damned if he knows more than a talking point or two. Didn't you hear? Those coal miners in West Virginia with black lung disease are losing their jobs because those yuppies in California are buying e…

It “helps” automakers. As it stands now, they only build to the California standards since it is too expensive to build two sets of cars. Until they do away with California’s stricter regulations, the loosening of regulations at the federal level has no effect.

How many of those are American, though? Loosely regulating American manufacturers only would be more in line with Trump's isolationist tendencies.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#14

Post by chrissnell »

joshmn wrote: post #3
zamalek wrote: post #2

Arnie has been pretty vocal against Trump, respectful but openly defiant. I wonder if this is disciplinary action - turning climate change is very close to Arnie's heart.

Exactly this. It's merely a petty move. It doesn't benefit the country, it benefits his fragile, classless ego. Has he looked or been otherwise briefed on how these mandates have crippled the American automakers? I'll be damned if he knows more than a talking point or two. Didn't you hear? Those coal miners in West Virginia with black lung disease are losing their jobs because those yuppies in California are buying e…

Not true--when CA imposes new emissions or efficiency regulations, the automakers are forced to comply to keep access to that huge market. Not wanting to design two different vehicles, they simply comply and pass the cost along to all of the buyers, whether they live in CA or not. The rest of the country has no way to directly affect the CARB's decisions. This exemption, therefore, is very unfair for the rest of us. The administration's policy could have significant impact on the price of vehicles for the rest of us. My diesel truck, for example, has several thousand dollars worth of emissions equipment that my state does not require. It's problematic and I'd love to skip it on my next purchase.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#15

Post by chrissnell »

lph wrote: post #8
chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

So we should only have to follow the intersection of all state regulations? That sounds like a great race to the bottom.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. As the article states, CA has a special exemption to the law. We merely need to set a national standard and have the automakers follow that.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#16

Post by phs318u »

chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

No it doesn’t impose anything of the sort. Car manufacturers are perfectly free to not sell cars to Californians and therefore manufacture cars that don’t meet Californian regs. The reason California has those regs is precisely because they have exercised their state rights. And why should the feds be making it more or less fair for anyone? Isn’t this a free market?

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#17

Post by zupzupper »

kyrra wrote: post #7

It seems odd to me that California gets a pass to make their own rules here. I don't know the law enough, but there does seem to be some minor parallels to the sports betting SCOTUS case that was just ruled on (saying that it was illegal to have special waivers for a single state). Maybe this is different as it was a waiver by the EPA and not a law?

To be clear, the exemption has been in place since the 1970's and allows California to pass their own requirements, that meet or exceed federal requirements.

We would not be allowed standards that are below federal standards, we're just allowed to be tougher on ourselves than the fed requires.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#18

Post by dahdum »

zupzupper wrote: post #10
chrissnell wrote: post #4

These regulations impose an unfair burden on consumers outside of the state, who must pay for California-spec'ed emissions equipment that they never wanted or were required to have. Non-Californians have litte power in the voting booth to resist California's impositions. By going after the exemption, the administration is making things more fair for the folks in the other 49 states.

The exemption just allows California to enforce tougher standards on themselves. If other states want to follow suit, they're not compelled to by California, automakers choose to build a single model that works in all 50 states rather than spend the money to make multiple emissions models, but they are not forced to either.

Only California is allowed the exemption though, I can't think of a good reason they alone should have that power.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#19

Post by triviatise »

In wickard vs filburn the govt made the case that a wheat farmer that grew wheat only for himself was subject to the interstate commerce clause. The reasoning was that he impacted markets by not having to buy wheat and therefore he should be fined for violating farming restrictions. The supreme court ruled in favor of the US govt.

This expansion of the commerce clause could lead to trump being able to get something like this through. Be wary of expansions of federal power predicated on reinterpretation of the constitution.

Re: Trump is going after California’s clean car mandate

#20

Post by danek »

dahdum wrote: post #18
zupzupper wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exemption just allows California to enforce tougher standards on themselves. If other states want to follow suit, they're not compelled to by California, automakers choose to build a single model that works in all 50 states rather than spend the money to make multiple emissions models, but they are not forced to either.

Only California is allowed the exemption though, I can't think of a good reason they alone should have that power.

Then ask your state to enact tougher restrictions
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