Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#51

Post by simonbarker87 » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

geoalchimista wrote: post #9

Because most modern PhD factories are sweat shops that offer a rather dismal career prospect. (If you've been through the process --- I suspect there are a lot on HN --- you know what I mean.)

I loved my PhD - had no intention of staying in academia, got paid a decent stipend for the whole time and was in and out in 2 years 10 months and it gave me the prefect spring board in to starting my own business (unrelated topic but the skills I developed and learned in that time have been a huge help) - I treated my PhD like a full time job and avoided the procrastination that many suffer with in the first 18 months.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#52

Post by kleiba » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

ethelward wrote: post #43

navidfarhadi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You live off a meager stipend for about a decade Keep in mind that this is not necessarily true for schools in countries outside of the US. At my school, KTH Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, as a PhD student you are considered an employee of the school and you are paid a living wage with full benefits. The current salary starts at 28600 SEK/month and can reach up to 33500 SEK/month [1] which is definitel…

> but I am not sure about other schools in Europe. For France and Germany, stipend/wages range roughly from 1200€ to 1800€/mont, so a bit over minimal wage, and definitely under what you could do in the private sector.

I'm sure this varies across disciplines but a lot of PhD students in CS are hired to do their thesis as part of a research project. In these cases they get paid very decent salaries.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#53

Post by notfromhere » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

shiado wrote: post #18

I find articles such as this one to be absolutely fascinating. It seems that people like those in this article appear to be trying to gentrify what is mostly unskilled labour, adding some sort of intellectual doublethink that they pulled off from the chip on their shoulder which comes from not fulfilling their path to become a certified academic intellectual. Based on the title of 'owner' of these ventures I am quite…

Quitting academia to join the blue collar workforce has been a trope for a loooong time

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#54

Post by Kalium » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #14

geoalchimista wrote: post #9

Because most modern PhD factories are sweat shops that offer a rather dismal career prospect. (If you've been through the process --- I suspect there are a lot on HN --- you know what I mean.)

I bailed out three years into a chemistry PhD and my only regret is that I started it at all. I'm not saying that going to graduate school is necessarily a mistake but I think a lot of people go because they've done well in school up to that point and aren't sure what else to do with themselves.

When I was an undergrad, there was a PhD candidate who advised me to go to grad school for exactly this reason. He told me it was years I could spend avoiding having to find a job.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#55

Post by Kalium » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

1996 wrote: post #12

luizfzs wrote: post #4

I have a master's degree and I learned early that getting a PhD was not for me. The way things worked at the university made me not stand to be in that environment anymore. This thing that is ridiculous in my opinion is that the advisor would say: "there is this conference coming and we will send a manuscript. We can try this and that to see if it is publishable.". Why the hell should I research for publishing? One s…

Most of academia is toxic. Those who don't see that haven't spent enough time in it. I believe things can't go well in general in any area where money comes from organized begging ("proposals", "apply for funding"), driven by reputation ("publications", "impact factor") and where the bad eggs can't even be fired ("tenure")

My experience is that some people in academia really have minimal idea of what the world outside it is like. They literally can't imagine anything different and certainly haven't experienced it.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#56

Post by throwaway080383 » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #44

username_123 wrote: post #40

I feel like PhDs in Computer Science should have better job prospects outside of Academia. Some jobs, like "research scientist", require PhDs. Look at companies like Lyft that are currently hiring "Research Scientist" (e.g. https://www.lyft.com/jobs/4014499002 ) where they require a M.S.or PhD.

I wonder if interviewers still ask you to do fizz buzz when you have a PhD?

They do (source: personal experience).

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#57

Post by chrisseaton » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #21

Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…

Not this anti-PhD negative nonsense again! It doesn't ring true to me at all.

> You live off a meager stipend for about a decade

I paid a mortgage, supported a family, and built savings while doing my PhD with no issue.

> and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time.

You don't appear on the job market like a newbie. By the time you graduate you should already be well-known enough in your field that you have a reputation, a track-record and several good options. My first job after my PhD was building my own team in industry. It's not like starting a new-grad job.

> Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field

If you're not in the top 0.1% of your field you shouldn't be doing a PhD in the first place.

> you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you

Why do you assume everyone wants to be in academia? I'm not even sure a majority go into a PhD wanting that. I never did.

> Meanwhile your peers are well established in their careers

Working on a PhD is establishing yourself in your career. But with 1-1 mentorship and a lot of time and space to grow, work with a lot of different people, travel to meet the important people in the field, learn to talk and present your ideas. It's the best way to establish your career that there is.

> have families

You can build a family while doing a PhD just fine. I did. Do you think they bad PhD students from dating or something?

I wasn't even a particularly good PhD student, or at a particularly prestigious institution, and I managed these things.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#58

Post by bitcoinmoney » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #44

username_123 wrote: post #40

I feel like PhDs in Computer Science should have better job prospects outside of Academia. Some jobs, like "research scientist", require PhDs. Look at companies like Lyft that are currently hiring "Research Scientist" (e.g. https://www.lyft.com/jobs/4014499002 ) where they require a M.S.or PhD.

I wonder if interviewers still ask you to do fizz buzz when you have a PhD?

They did ask me at ARM. I didn't know that was fizz buzz and I forgot if I got that question correctly. 8 months later they told me they are not hiring me. lol

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#59

Post by rifung » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #21

Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…

> Meanwhile your peers are well established in their careers, have families, making 2-3x as much as you.

People pay money to do what they enjoy all the time. People take classes, eat at fancy restaurants, go on vacations, etc. This is just a more extreme instance of that.

I'd like to get a PhD one day even though I've worked in the industry. It has nothing to do with my "career". I just have topics I'd like to do research in because I find them fascinating. Also I feel like working in the industry makes me dumber.

In my experience the percentage of people who seem super excited about their work is much higher in academia than in industry. This shouldn't really be a surprise since the proportion of people who stay in academia for money is much smaller than for industry. That said, there definitely are people who just didn't know what else to do, but there are those people in industry as well.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#60

Post by raziel2701 » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #57

spamizbad wrote: post #21

Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…

Not this anti-PhD negative nonsense again! It doesn't ring true to me at all. > You live off a meager stipend for about a decade I paid a mortgage, supported a family, and built savings while doing my PhD with no issue. > and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. You don't appear on the job market like a newbie. By the time you graduate you should already be well-known enough in your fie…

Where did you go to school that you were able to pay a mortgage and have a family while doing your phd? I'm paying a wee bit more than half my monthly salary on rent alone. Am in Bay Area though.