I recently graduated and have been grinding for interview prep (leetcode and CTCI mostly), but I’m getting no where. Easy problems take me 2-5 hours. I experience PTSD like symptoms from the constant barrage of negative thoughts the difficulty and stress of doing these problems are causing me. I don’t have time to do anything else and no objectively measurable progress is being made. Even if I get a problem right, I gain little to no satisfaction at this point. I completely hate what I’ve gotten myself into.
I put all my eggs in the “being a programmer” basket and it’s clearly not for me. I do have a computer science undergraduate degree which I’m hoping I can use for something. Are there any career paths I can pivot to that are less cognitively demanding than software engineering where this degree would be an asset?
Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
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Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#2Getting in Google et al would be too stressful, but lots of small businesses hire programmers for relatively simple apps. They usually don't have hard technical interview questions. I'd look into a variety of job listings. Downside is salary will be definitely under 100k (probably closer to 50k), but it's still higher than starting from scratch in another field.
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#3I will start by assuming you didn’t cheat your way through school. Most hiring managers like CS majors because creating an OS or Compiler is hard. So let’s assume you got good enough grades to show that you learned the material.
One possibility is you just aren’t wired for the interview process, but could make a competent programmer given the chance. The other is you got the degree. It just aren’t wired for programming in general.
In either case there are a lot of near-programming jobs where your CS degree can be valuable. Thing Sales engineering if you are outgoing, QA if not, and technical support if you are in the middle. All 3 allow you to be technical, and can lead to programming jobs if you are so inclined. And all 3 positions are filled with people who wish they had a CS degree.
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#4It's been 3 years since I graduated and started working as a full-time software engineer, but I still struggle with leetcode problems. Even easy ones. My day to day work involves gluing together API's and not writing algorithmic code to solve tricky puzzles. Don't think that just because you can't solve leetcode problems you're not meant to be an engineer. And trust me, I feel your pain. I haven't written a binary search tree from scratch in years, so reading through my algorithms book right now is a struggle. I'm also actively interviewing for jobs and it's really frustrating to work 40-50 hours at work then come home and put in another 20-30 hours of leetcoding for interviews. It's really really tough.
I'm ready to be downvoted for this, but if you can't solve a problem in 15-20 minutes, just look at the solution, understand it, and memorize it. The more problems you work on the better your pattern recognition will get, and it'll be easier to solve related problems. Unless you're a genius programmer, I seriously doubt most normal people can easily and flawlessly answer these stupid questions within 15 minutes in an interview setting.
Also keep in mind that the vast majority of interviewers will tell you that they're looking for a good thought process as opposed to the correct solution, but they're 100% full of shit so don't believe what they say. There are hundreds of engineers who have already memorized 300+ leetcode problems and WILL write correct and bug-free code in an interview setting, and they will get the job no matter how good your "thought process" is. However, there are SOME companies that care about thought process, and those are the ones you have to look for. Unfortunately I haven't found out how to determine which companies actually do that, but typically they're start-ups. This only applies if you're in the Bay Area, however. I can't comment on what it's like outside of California.
I feel like nobody in the thread truly read your original post. You asked for alternative career options because you can't solve leetcode problems and that's absolutely ridiculous. You can absolutely get hired as a software engineer, you just have to play the game. Keep leetcoding and you'll eventually crack an interview. It's just a numbers game. Good luck!
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#5Software project management?
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#6Lots of companies don't do stupid programming puzzles. Here's a list: https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards
Don't listen to people telling you that you shouldn't be a programmer. Doing these sort of puzzles has very little to do with 90% of what programmers do. There are jobs that need these algorithm skills, sure, but they're not the default jobs.
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#7At work you will normally have an internet connection, so what are effectively useless "elite code" algorithm puzzles are A) easily looked up, and B) not most of what the work is. Those are not realistic problems, business have better things to do than waste time on those sort of things. Here is a realistic problem that might be encountered at work: "We need output X under these circumstances, but instead got output Y. Track down the problem and estimate time to correct". Another might be, "We have a new business requirement, how long will it take to design and code it - think about it and let me know tomorrow." Businesses are not arcane IQ test puzzles like the sites you are looking at.
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#8How are you with "homework problem" stuff? Some companies will use "you have 24-48 hours to put together a demo matching these criteria" instead of doing technical problems at an interview, with the interview instead talking about the "why" and "how" decisions you made while putting the whatever together.
See https://github.com/icopp/tech-demo-1 and https://icopp.github.io/tech-demo-1 for an example of one I've done before.
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#9Some of the best Product Managers I’ve worked with people with Engineering or Comp Sci degrees who had been mediocre devs for one reason or another.
That said, is there any type of programming are you good at? What actual work have you done? Have you shipped an iPhone app or launched a basic website? Were your comp sci courses brutally hard and you spent hours working at them and barely eked out a degree?
I’m asking because you just may be failing because of anxiety, not “stupidity”.
Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?
#10I feel like the fact that you earned that degree should encourage you to think about what actual factors are limiting your progress.
I don't think "being too stupid" is that factor. I mean... you're smart enough to graduate with a CS degree!
Are you doing these interview prep just because you enjoy the training, or are you in "cram mode" trying to force yourself to get better?
> Even if I get a problem right, I gain little to no satisfaction at this point.
In order to make "deliberate practice" like this less stressful, you should establish a baseline of doing some task in a way that makes you enjoy it.
Step aside from interview prep, take a few days and focus on anything other than programming, then casually think about what YOU want to create -- for your own personal use/enjoyment -- to satisfy your creativity. Not to "grind" and get better at it -- but simply to tinker and fiddle and read and discover.
Once you're programming (or maybe reading, or writing, or painting, or making music etc...) just "for the kicks," you might try to dive deeper into a part that you don't understand well -- if you're not going anywhere, take a step back into the comfort zone, and do what you enjoy for a while, then try something harder again.