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How Fake Money Saved Brazil

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71–80 of 136 posts

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#71
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who are asking for more inflation in the USA are asking for something in the 2% range, or (for those who are truly bold) asking for prices to rise to the level they would be at if inflation had remained in the 2% range for the past five years or so. Stable money is good, but so is providing people with an incentive to spend and invest, rather than incentives to hoard cash and default on their debts.

Sorry, but this is playing with fire. What scientists, technocrats and economists forget is that public policy is rarely driven by rationality. It is driven mostly by private interests, demagoguery, blind ideology, prejudice and the public misconceptions. The idea of taking a little bit of a very dangerous medicine is something that no one should take lightheartedly.

There's a big difference between inflation and hyper-inflation.

An inflation rate of between 1% and 3% is generally seen as a sign of a healthy economy (There is sufficient demand for products that some prices can naturally rise, without causing economic disruption. It also implies a low unemployment rate, in that the economy is sufficiently close to full employment to be able to tolerate some price movements)

Some central banks even go so far as to formally announce a inflation target, which gives the markets a more predictable way to forecast interest rates. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_targeting

OTOH, hyper-inflation implies a lack of confidence in the currency and economy.

In a lot of ways this is similar to unemployment. Generally, low unemployment is good for the economy (and presumably society) until it reaches a point where businesses are unable to grow because of a lack of labor. When economists talk about "full employment" they usually mean this point - where labor constrains the economy - rather than an actual 0% unemployment rate. (While this sounds quite harsh, there are good reasons why any economy will have an unemployment rate greater than 0%. For example, often the centers of population do not coincide with the places jobs are)

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#72
post #23

Hopefully the U.S. won't ever have to deal with this type of issue (out of control inflation). I'm very surprised that inflation hasn't hit the U.S. yet in a big way, but from what I hear that is because China and the U.S. are buying U.S. treasury bonds in a big way.

Why on earth would inflation hit the US?

Leaving aside the oh-shit-we-are-all-fucked scenarios (ie, collapse of trust in the US currency or maybe another 70's era oil shock) what on earth could cause inflation at the moment?

Sure, your interest rates are low, but domestic demand levels are so low that everyone are desperately cutting prices to try and create some demand. Combine that with very high unemployment and it's simply not a high inflation environment.

I'd be more worried about deflation than inflation at the moment.

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#73

So they used the real, which was fake, to make the money that was real fake, so they could make real money out of the fake real. Dr. Seuss would be proud.

"From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere!"

I have been introduced to this masterpiece by reading some of the books to my daughter and it's a real delight, apparently as much for her than it is for me.

I wish I had these books where I grew up.

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#74
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that the Brazilian real is named after the Portuguese real which does mean "royal". It is an odd name in a democratic country, though.

You are correct that 'real' means royal but it also means true or authentic (similarly in English). I think that probably more accurately describes their intention behind the meaning of the name. When I lived in Brazil in the 1990's, shortly after the currency changed from Cruzeiros to reais, the exchange rate was around 1.5. Today, it's 1.69 - there have been some relatively mild fluctuations since then but it has s…

You're right when you think about it - royal does have a double meaning of 'real' - as in 'what a royal pain in the ass'.

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#75
post #2

"He said, 'Well, I've just been named the finance minister. You know I don’t know economics, so please come to meet me in Brasilia tomorrow,' " Bacha recalls. So, three things had to happen: 1. A politician had to admit his ignorance 2. Some bright spark technocrat somewhere had the right solution to a seemingly impossible problem. 3. The right politician asked for help from the right technocrat They're not kidding.…

And it definitely felt like one. You have no idea how much the country changed (for the better) because of this improbable miracle.

Nobody believed it would work because the whole country had lost faith in "magical" economic reforms like the one before it, the Collor Plan.

Imagine you wake up one day and all of your bank accounts are frozen - that's what happened to my parents (and most of the population) on March 16, 1990 when the Collor Plan was announced. It's your money, but you can't spend it - sorry. My father had been saving money in order to buy a new house. Years later he recovered less than 1/10 of the original sum. Lots of small businesses (including family and friends) went broke.

When I talk to my parents about pre-real days it feels like they were born in a different country than I was.

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#76
post #3

"Brazil's inflation rate hit 80 percent per month. At that rate, if eggs cost $1 one day, they'll cost $2 a month later." Really.

Rule of 72 Divide 72 by the periodic interest rate to find the number of periods to double the money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72

Great rule, should be the very first thing taught in high school when you get to exponents.

Dr. Albert Bartlet of University of Colorado has an excellent lecture on its implications for population growth, environmental degradation, and other big picture problems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#77
This is really about a different point of view. The miracle is that they managed to teach the masses to look differently at the same thing.

Say, the price of a cheap food is always correlated with the cost of unskilled labor (there will be over-supply or under-supply otherwise), so, you can always easily escape a hunger unless you're sick or disabled. That is how poor people in a poor countries are surviving.

In the simple words, the conditions and relations are the same - rich getting richer and so on. ^_^ What is wrong is the digits written on pieces of a paper.

Think in terms of absolute values and there is no inflation or deflation or market crashes. You just have nothing to lose. You takes pieces of paper in exchange for your time and effort, you gives pieces of paper in exchange for a food and booze.

If you're earning more than you're spending it doesn't matter what digits are written on the pieces of paper.

If you're spending more than you're earning - you're in trouble. Especially in inflation, when your debt will be recalculated to stay ahead of it.

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#79
post #2

"He said, 'Well, I've just been named the finance minister. You know I don’t know economics, so please come to meet me in Brasilia tomorrow,' " Bacha recalls. So, three things had to happen: 1. A politician had to admit his ignorance 2. Some bright spark technocrat somewhere had the right solution to a seemingly impossible problem. 3. The right politician asked for help from the right technocrat They're not kidding.…

There is no such thing as a "real value" as measured in a vacuum. Value only comes in relation to something: a commodity or a basket of goods. What they did in Brazil was to establish a new currency which the government promised not to inflate, then as inflation destroyed the previous currency, the way was open for the new one. This is how inflation was ended in Weimar Germany, post-WW2 Hungary, '90es Serbia/Romania/Russia. Only Zimbabwe handled things so poorly that the national currency vanished completely.

Even if people learn the value of their inflating money with respect to more stable things, inflation STILL eats away at the value of their savings. It does them no good to learn prices are stable (with respect to an arbitrary standard) except to learn they are indeed getting poorer.

Also, freezing bank accounts and banning the trade of foreign currency only makes matters worse. People not being able to access their money does make them poorer still.

1. You can't inflate at leisure without destroying the currency. 2. You can't have a peg to a foreign currency if you keep inflating faster than that currency's central bank. 3. You can't then cover up for the misdeeds of the government by denying people access to their savings.

Re: How Fake Money Saved Brazil

#80
post #34

An extra level of indirection? Reminded me of the quote: "All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of indirection"

...except too many levels of indirection.

I think you can solve that, to some degree, with a cache (if it's performance that's troubling you) or a simplified facade (if it's the complexity of the deep stack).

Yes, those are indirections.

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