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NetBSD 8.0 released

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Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#101

Post by Fnoord »

Koshkin wrote: post #85
cpeterso wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing armchair software architect here, I wish NetBSD and FreeBSD would join forces. The NetBSD developers could bring their portable architecture to FreeBSD's more featureful kernel and userland. What other value does NetBSD have over FreeBSD besides portability? IIUC, macOS uses NetBSD's userland though it has FreeBSD bits in its XNU kernel, so there must be benefits to NetBSD beyond its portability that I am jus…

> portable architecture Incidentally, hasn't Linux been ported (eventually) to more architectures than NetBSD has?

Define 'Linux'.

The kernel? Or a full-blown OS like Debian GNU/Linux? Official ports, or also unofficial ports?

If you're going for official Debian GNU/Linux ports, then no. If you mean Fedora (say you really wanna run Fedora), then no.

NetBSD isn't just a kernel; it is a full-blown, portable OS. The base system is practically the same on every port. So if you're familiar with NetBSD, the idea is that you can always run that familiar OS on another computer.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#102

Post by arthurfm »

microtonal wrote: post #39
agumonkey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who's trying to eat usb3 ?

- USB 3.1 - USB-C power delivery - USB-C alternate modes, such as DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 3

Thanks to the USB 3.0 Promoter Group, USB 3.1 Gen 1 (a.k.a. USB 3.0) devices have been rebranded as USB 3.2 Gen 1x1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#USB_3.2

The USB 3.2 standard is backward compatible with USB 3.1/3.0 and USB 2.0. It defines the following transfer modes:

USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 - SuperSpeed, 5 Gbit/s (0.625 GB/s) data signaling rate over 1 lane using 8b/10b encoding, the same as USB 3.1 Gen 1 and USB 3.0. USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 - SuperSpeed+, new 10 Gbit/s (1.25 GB/s) data rate over 2 lanes using 8b/10b encoding. USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 - SuperSpeed+, 10 Gbit/s (1.25 GB/s) data rate over 1 lane using 128b/132b encoding, the same as USB 3.1 Gen 2. USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 - SuperSpeed+, new 20 Gbit/s (2.5 GB/s) data rate over 2 lanes using 128b/132b encoding.

USB 3.2 is supported with the default Windows 10 USB drivers and in Linux Kernel 4.18.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#103

Post by SSLy »

arthurfm wrote: post #102
microtonal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- USB 3.1 - USB-C power delivery - USB-C alternate modes, such as DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 3

Thanks to the USB 3.0 Promoter Group, USB 3.1 Gen 1 (a.k.a. USB 3.0) devices have been rebranded as USB 3.2 Gen 1x1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#USB_3.2 The USB 3.2 standard is backward compatible with USB 3.1/3.0 and USB 2.0. It defines the following transfer modes: USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 - SuperSpeed, 5 Gbit/s (0.625 GB/s) data signaling rate over 1 lane using 8b/10b encoding, the same as USB 3.1 Gen 1 and USB 3…

I wish this was satire

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#104

Post by JdeBP »

occamrazor wrote: post #30

What are the distinguishing features of NetBSD in comparison to OpenBSD and FreeBSD? From the respective home pages, FreeBSD targets high performance, OpenBSD security, but it is not so clear to me what is the focus of NetBSD.

Classifying the BSDs into "performance", "security", and "portability" has as little meaning as classifying people into blondes, brunettes, and redheads. It's trite and superficial, and not really how they differ.

They differ in their development models, families of related operating systems (consider TrueOS, DragonFly, MirOS, et al.), ports and packages mechanisms, extent of kernel APIs, filesystems, and toolsets.

Just three out of many examples:

* NetBSD's and OpenBSD's "wscons" subsystem for kernel virtual terminals is significantly different to FreeBSD's "syscons"/"vt" subsystem.

* OpenBSD's packing list files for pkg are different to FreeBSD's manifest files for pkgng.

* On OpenBSD, /bin/sh is the Korn shell, which is also the superuser's standard interactive shell, and the base toolset contains things such as doas and rcctl. On FreeBSD, /bin/sh is the Almquist shell, the superuser's standard interactive shell is the C shell (and the "toor" user exists), things like sudo come from ports, and the command for manipulating rcconf files is sysrc. /bin/sh is the Almquist shell on NetBSD, and the PD Korn shell on MirOS.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#105

Post by keithpeter »

mkirschner wrote: post #91
8bitsrule wrote: post #86

A podcast I recently heard - hosted by long-experienced Linux hands - reported that installing BSD was a nightmare. Some discussion of which distros avoid that nightmare might be helpful.

I started playing with OpenBSD 6.3 as a desktop (actually laptop) OS a couple of months ago. Installation was very straightforward. In my case I used the whole disk, no dual boot. Here's a tribute/introduction written by Derek Sivers: https://sivers.org/openbsd As for my own experience, I don't know if I'm ready to give up Debian as my primary desktop OS, but I really like OpenBSD on my coding-or-surfing-on-the-couch…

I've just improvised my way through a netBSD install on an old thinkpad X60 with 1Gb ram and a mechanical hard drive, whole disk, defaults mostly. Seems generally quite similar to OpenBSD (which makes sense given OpenBSD is a fork from netBSD).

$PKG_PATH is set up but commented out in the .profile for root. I'm going for a light window manager and Seamonkey and a few bits and pieces to see how the land lies.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#106

Post by keithpeter »

keithpeter wrote: post #105
mkirschner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started playing with OpenBSD 6.3 as a desktop (actually laptop) OS a couple of months ago. Installation was very straightforward. In my case I used the whole disk, no dual boot. Here's a tribute/introduction written by Derek Sivers: https://sivers.org/openbsd As for my own experience, I don't know if I'm ready to give up Debian as my primary desktop OS, but I really like OpenBSD on my coding-or-surfing-on-the-couch…

I've just improvised my way through a netBSD install on an old thinkpad X60 with 1Gb ram and a mechanical hard drive, whole disk, defaults mostly. Seems generally quite similar to OpenBSD (which makes sense given OpenBSD is a fork from netBSD). $PKG_PATH is set up but commented out in the .profile for root. I'm going for a light window manager and Seamonkey and a few bits and pieces to see how the land lies.

Alas, can't install many packages, dependency errors. Example below for texlive-collection-all

     fmtutil [INFO]: Not selected formats: 29
     fmtutil [INFO]: Total formats: 29
     fmtutil [INFO]: exiting with status 0
     pkg_add: no pkg found for 'tex-pgf-[0-9]*', sorry.
     pkg_add: Can't install dependency tex-pgf-[0-9]*
     pkg_add: Can't install dependency tex-pgfplots-[0-9]*
     pkg_add: Can't install dependency tex-milog-[0-9]*
     pkg_add: Can't install dependency texlive-collection-langgerman-[0-9]*
     pkg_add: 1 package addition failed
This could just be mirror flakiness, $PKG_PATH is resolving to

     http://cdn.NetBSD.org/pub/pkgsrc/packages/NetBSD/i386/8.0/All
There appears to be no native binary for LibreOffice. Investigating.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#107

Post by honor123 »

aaronmdjones wrote: post #90

Am I the only one feeling a little bit disappointed with some of the software versions listed there? I don't use NetBSD, so perhaps I'm not in "the loop", and please forgive me if so, but; - GCC 5.5 is only one major version higher than the oldest supported version; 6 or 7 would have been a better choice while you're banging out a whole new operating system release, 6 is still fully supported, 8 was released early th…

Like I said, NetBSD is obsolete. Only useful for old neckbeards who want to run old and already dead computers/machines and don't care how much they pay for that power eating hardware.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#108

Post by Crontab »

cpeterso wrote: post #54
avar wrote: post #2

> USB stack rework, USB3 support added. I didn't realize NetBSD was that far behind on some basic features like USB support. "The Linux kernel mainline contains support for USB 3.0 since version 2.6.31, which was released in September 2009"[1]. "FreeBSD supports USB 3.0 since version 8.2, which was released in February 2011.". So they're getting USB 3.0 almost 10 years after it was released for Linux. 1. https://en.w…

Playing armchair software architect here, I wish NetBSD and FreeBSD would join forces. The NetBSD developers could bring their portable architecture to FreeBSD's more featureful kernel and userland. What other value does NetBSD have over FreeBSD besides portability? IIUC, macOS uses NetBSD's userland though it has FreeBSD bits in its XNU kernel, so there must be benefits to NetBSD beyond its portability that I am jus…

Speaking as some one who likes Netbsd but doesn’t care for Freebsd, I have no desire to see any kind of a merge.

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#109

Post by Keyframe »

microtonal wrote: post #96
davegauer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me if you've already heard this a lot, but Slackware is often described as being a very "BSD-like" Linux and might be another way to get some of the philosophy you're seeking.

Indeed, Slackware, Void, or Arch. Or since the parent poster seems to be somewhat into scientific computing, NixOS could also be interesting. NixOS is like having virtualenvs for everything.

I'm in creative, but do a lot of graphics and video programming and research for fun and profit, as well as programming for the fun of it! One of these days I'm going to try Qubes OS and try playing with different OS' at the same time!

Re: NetBSD 8.0 released

#110

Post by rjsw »

keithpeter wrote: post #106
keithpeter wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just improvised my way through a netBSD install on an old thinkpad X60 with 1Gb ram and a mechanical hard drive, whole disk, defaults mostly. Seems generally quite similar to OpenBSD (which makes sense given OpenBSD is a fork from netBSD). $PKG_PATH is set up but commented out in the .profile for root. I'm going for a light window manager and Seamonkey and a few bits and pieces to see how the land lies.

Alas, can't install many packages, dependency errors. Example below for texlive-collection-all fmtutil [INFO]: Not selected formats: 29 fmtutil [INFO]: Total formats: 29 fmtutil [INFO]: exiting with status 0 pkg_add: no pkg found for 'tex-pgf-[0-9]*', sorry. pkg_add: Can't install dependency tex-pgf-[0-9]* pkg_add: Can't install dependency tex-pgfplots-[0-9]* pkg_add: Can't install dependency tex-milog-[0-9]* pkg_add…

Building packages can't start until the final release build of the base Operating System has been done, things like LibreOffice depend on a lot of other things. Maybe check again in a couple of days.
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