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Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

theintercept.com

221–230 of 286 posts

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#221
post #3

This is less a news story than a coat rack Greenwald uses to hang a bunch of loosely-related political arguments he wants to make: * That Ecuador under Moreno is subservient to western powers, this according in part to Correa, who ran the previous Ecuadorian administration, which was widely considered one of the most corrupt in the western hemisphere (I have no idea if Moreno's was as well). OK? None of us are equipp…

>because, I don't know, the UK is super corrupt and out to get Assange

The UK attacked another country on a false pretense causing, directly and indirectly, hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Then turned a blind eye to the Iraqi (puppet?) government routinely torturing civilians including women and children - which was exposed by WikiLeaks by the way. I would say the UK government IS super corrupt.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really accurate to say he was trying to influence elections. His goal is to publish verifiable documents that bring transparency to important political issues. He did not take sides whatsoever in the 2016 election, and obviously would have loved to publish information about Trump if any had been leaked to WL.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/wikileaks-fue... WikiLeaks promoted false conspiracy theories.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that WL promoted those theories.

Clearly if you watch the full statement Assange makes, he's simply establishing a universe of possible sources of the leaks. Statistically, a disgruntled employee is significantly more likely to attempt sabotage than many/most of the other explanations being floated at the time.

Also, FWIW anyone can weaponize a system like Wikileaks, and we should reasonably expect that to be a major source of the leaked data. But keeping in mind that WL is something that can be weaponized, there are many different attacks that can be delivered through it.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many tweets to listen, but some of the most egregious claims he made: - Spain were going to physically invade Catalonia and cause a Tiananmen Square-like situation - The president of Spain wanted a "1000 year Reich" (ironic since that president was ousted by a no-confidence vote around a month ago. Guess the Reichs in Spain don't last long) - Spanish federal Police warned jihadist terrorists that Mossos were foll…

>- Spain were going to physically invade Catalonia and cause a Tiananmen Square-like situation >The president of Spain wanted a "1000 year Reich" >- Spanish federal Police warned jihadist terrorists that Mossos were following them (Catalonia police) https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/910056476814794752 https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/917691333191585792 https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/931712044…

What difference does it makes that these are links? Is okay to publish anything if it’s a link?

The guy lost his mind. Shame because I actually respected him before this.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#224
post #165

True about Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning. Not so true about Assange. And it’s not just the legality. He didn’t simply release documents, he collaborated (as far as it is understood) with another country, to undermine the governments that imposed sanctions on it for the crimes it has (still does) committed.

> he collaborated (as far as it is understood) with another country, to undermine the governments that imposed sanctions on it for the crimes it has (still does) committed.

Can I explain? Did I miss something?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#225
post #168
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

Leaking secrets is not a freedom of speech issue. I would agree with you if Snowden narrowly leaked the details of the PRISM program. I think if he did that he would have been a genuine hero. But he didn't. He downloaded as much secret information as he could, and gave them to organizations that were openly hostile to American interests. Consider the level of detail of methods and sources in the information leaked by…

>organizations that were openly hostile to American interests.

Exactly which organizations are you referring to?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really accurate to say he was trying to influence elections. His goal is to publish verifiable documents that bring transparency to important political issues. He did not take sides whatsoever in the 2016 election, and obviously would have loved to publish information about Trump if any had been leaked to WL.

> and obviously would have loved to publish information about Trump if any had been leaked to WL. I don't think that's clear, since they were in seemingly friendly contact with Donald Trump Jr and Roger Stone. When caught, Assange claimed they were only pretending to be friendly with them. If Wikileaks has no credibility, the explanation is unbelievable, if the explanation is believable it means they are willing to l…

Just as any journalist might spend hours hanging out with a source, developing sympathy and rapport, WL has to use some of the same strategies.

It's a tactic used by detectives, journalists, psychotherapists, etc. It is appropriate in some fields and is part of the professional standard and is not a reflection on credibility.

I do not think we have to look far to assess WL's credibility. When is the last time that significant source material has been provided to some other, competing transparency organization? WL is the market leader and in spite of having been under attack for years has not been left in the dust of some other competitor. In that sense WL has tremendous credibility.

When is the last time someone has leaked a trove of data to the NYTimes after WL sat on it for months waiting for the perfect moment to deploy it? This simply hasn't happened.

All it would take would be one big story where the leakers publicized that Assange said no to the story or that he sat on the information. I think it's quite obvious that Assange actually would publish any significant story at the earliest opportunity.

Snowden chose not to go to WikiLeaks for his own personal reasons and because he wanted to be extra cautious about how aggressively the information was disclosed (to protect national security). Wikileaks is specifically not willing to heavily editorialize the leaked information (by omission or actively) because doing so would create doubt about why he suppressed information, and such doubt would actually harm WL's credibility.

Something like WL can easily be weaponized by state actors, disgruntled employees, estranged partners, etc. Because of that, the decision not to suppress any significant stories is crucial. WL won't publish paraphrased rumors, it publishes the actual source material so that there is no need to make inferences or imagine what was kept back.

It's ironic if not a bit absurd that Assange was asking Don Junior to turn over damaging information about his own father and that his remarks are used as evidence that he wanted Trump to win the election.

On a related but tangential note, it's remarkable to me that nobody has leaked Trump's tax returns yet. I'm also surprised nobody has posted a bounty on Ethereum for the first person to send the tax returns to Wikileaks and publish the decryption key and checksum in a public ledger.

One other thing that I'll mention is that I think that people who like one of the two major parties are much more likely to perceive someone else's behavior as being motivated by partisan loyalty.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#227
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on that? Provide sources etc. Genuinely curious

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/08/26/assange-slams-inc... "Assange also accused the Clinton campaign of stoking "a kind of neo-McCarthy hysteria" about Russia's alleged role in the DNC hacking and Moscow's purported links to the Trump campaign." Meanwhile a recent federal indictment has accused Russia of doing exactly that: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/13/rosenstein-says-1... The indictment is here:…

Everyone can be accused. That in itself doesn't mean anything. Also, Ex FBI Director Comney testified that the FBI didn't get access to the DNC server. Instead, the DNC hired itself people to verify their claim that they were hacked. How can they be serious if they aren't even trying to secure the main evidence? It is also pretty clear that they are not on Trumps side by announcing this directly before the summit.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425087-1/fbi-director-investig...

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What claims did Assange make in regards to the Catalonia situation?

Too many tweets to listen, but some of the most egregious claims he made: - Spain were going to physically invade Catalonia and cause a Tiananmen Square-like situation - The president of Spain wanted a "1000 year Reich" (ironic since that president was ousted by a no-confidence vote around a month ago. Guess the Reichs in Spain don't last long) - Spanish federal Police warned jihadist terrorists that Mossos were foll…

I guess I don't get it. So you're upset with him for posting conspiracy-theory-esque tweets?

Have you been on twitter? Everybody, president included, tweets out ill-informed politically-motivated garbage.

Why do whistle-blowers need to be held to this absurd standard of absolute moral purity (that none of our politicians have) to not be seen as criminals?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#229
post #29
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way Obama, or any mainstream president, would have done that. He loved the intelligence agencies even more than Bush as it gave the US the same power projection without any of the dirty business being under public scrutiny. The "polite societies" way of do much of the same which was highly criticized in the prior administration. Despite the convenient optics I don't see him being any more liberal on the ma…

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

> and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged

It drives me nuts that whistle-blower has become a bad word. It is by definition good. The government has made laws to pay people for whistle-blowing, to help reduce corruption.

Definition of whistle-blowing: * a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity.

So if you catch Nixon breaking into the DNC and you report it, you're whistle-blowing (and the greatest hero possible). If you publish random private information online, that is merely leaking.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t see how a moral person could stand by his decisions, honestly. I feel this way about anyone who attempts to deflect the USA from scrutiny, with regards to the war crimes it has flagrantly committed in the time that Wikileaks has become relevant. It seems that the USA can do no harm when it comes to war-fighting, and the American public remain, as ever, wilfully ignorant of the crimes being committed in thei…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism No one is saying the US doesn't have its own problems. None of that changes Russia's current behavior.

Ironic comment given that this thread is about a scandal about the US's poor behavior, and you are focusing on wrongdoings of the Russian government to divert attention from that.
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