Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#161

Post by danso » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:48 PM UTC

Faaak wrote: post #158

geofft wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes me profoundly sad how the world (or at least my world, mostly far left, liberal, educated, etc.) has turned so hard against Julian Assange. He's a hero in every sense of the word. In my world, heroes don't run from sexual assault trials. Is he afraid of prison, or of the sexual assault prosecution being a sham to punish him for what he published? Chelsea Manning was prosecuted and sentenced and more-or-les…

If you'd read the article, you'd know that the sexual charge was dismissed

The investigation was dropped because Sweden gave up:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/may/19/swedish-prosec...

> “In order to proceed with the case, Julian Assange would have to be formally notified of the criminal suspicions against him. We cannot expect to receive assistance from Ecuador regarding this. Therefore the investigation is discontinued.

> “If he, at a later date, makes himself available, I will be able to decide to resume the investigation immediately.”

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#162

Post by anonymous5133 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:48 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

Turning yourself into a tyrannical government is the most unpatriotic thing you can do.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#163

Post by slg » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

patient_zero wrote: post #155

slg wrote: post #89

I am genuinely surprised by the amount of positive comments here about Assange. It is clear that at a bare minimum he was used as a tool by Putin to sway politics in the US and is it seems likely he was a willing and active participant in that plan. For people who still view Assange positively, do you simply not care about that fact or do you just think the good outweighs the bad? EDIT: This comment is currently sitt…

I can't downvote, but in my mind to engage with this question is to lend it legitimacy. The debate then is unwinnable. See, if we frame our discussion on your terms (Was he a willing conspirator with Russia and Putin or merely a fool) then anyone with the beliefs like say, "Assange did the world some good by releasing documents the US government didn't want released" or "Assange was a powerful force for government tr…

How is the question illegitimate? I don't think it is controversial to say that Wikileaks was part of Russias plan to influence US politics. (Whether they were a unwilling or willing participant is immaterial at the moment). If simply establishing that as a fact makes your side of the debate "lost" and "unwinnable", maybe that means you should rethink why you fall on that side of the debate.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#164

Post by patient_zero » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

squirrelicus wrote: post #49

rgbrenner wrote: post #6

last April, Trump’s then-CIA Director Mike Pompeo, now his Secretary of State, delivered a deranged, rambling, highly threatening broadside against WikiLeaks. I watched the video linked and I wouldn't describe it as "deranged" or "rambling". Just because the author disagrees with Pompeo does not make him deranged. When reporters write blatantly political things like this, it really makes me question the fairness of t…

[flagged]

>Literally (2): in effect : virtually —used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible

As you say, this whole thread is pretty heavy. Not really in a thoughtful way, sadly. That said, I love your "literally literally". Is it meant to help the reader understand that you mean "literally" in its original form rather than its recently updated definition? :)

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#165

Post by onyva » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

True about Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning. Not so true about Assange. And it’s not just the legality. He didn’t simply release documents, he collaborated (as far as it is understood) with another country, to undermine the governments that imposed sanctions on it for the crimes it has (still does) committed.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#166

Post by Theodores » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #108

Theodores wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Young from Cryptome helped Wikileaks get started but then decided to distance himself from Assange and co. Why was this? https://www.cnet.com/news/wikileaks-estranged-co-founder-bec... Fundamentally the difference was that Wikileaks was all about making money, to pay for Assange and co to go about their special way, living life as kings in their own special world. Plenty of charities operate this way but John Yo…

> Assange's little difficulties with women ... not everyone has a squeaky clean character To be clear about his "little difficulties", he's been accused of intentionally breaking a condom he was using when having sex with one woman (both of them have stated that the condom broke) and continuing a sexual encounter with another person while refusing to use a condom. As the article states, he's escaped trial because he…

I was not sure how to best describe the 'little difficulties', my personal opinion is that he was less than a perfect gentleman, but I was not there.

I do wonder how much his 'heroic freedom fighter' demeanour tied into his bedroom ambitions. Why be a groupie wanting to bed the lead singer of the band when you could become one of Assange's baby-mamas?

He wouldn't be the first male to have greedy desires regarding the ladies, but, had he read Che Guevera's Guerrilla Warfare, and, had 'freedom fighting' been his true ambition rather than a means to further his rock star ego, then he would have kept his little head to himself.

Although Che Guevera mansplains from a different era, he wrote about how that the true revolutionary - assumed to be male - needs to stay away from women until the revolution sought for is achieved. I know everyone seeks a partner - it is human nature to do so - and that 'behind every great man is a great woman', with Assange he should have known that there were basic 'operational security' risks in doing so. It takes months to work out if that lovely lady is narcissistic and likely to play the victim card in some police cell with a 'he said/she said' situation that can't be controlled.

Had there been one incident then you could imagine that she was just an attention seeking liar, to give him the benefit of the doubt. I remember being on this page with Mr Clinton, but, when the numbers add up and a pattern is revealed you do have to wonder.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#167

Post by geofft » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

Faaak wrote: post #158

geofft wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes me profoundly sad how the world (or at least my world, mostly far left, liberal, educated, etc.) has turned so hard against Julian Assange. He's a hero in every sense of the word. In my world, heroes don't run from sexual assault trials. Is he afraid of prison, or of the sexual assault prosecution being a sham to punish him for what he published? Chelsea Manning was prosecuted and sentenced and more-or-les…

If you'd read the article, you'd know that the sexual charge was dismissed

Yes, I did read the article (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and it says that the investigation was closed (not that the charge was dismissed), because the prosecutors determined he had successfully run beyond their ability to prosecute them by claiming asylum for years, and they didn't see a point in keeping the case open. That's basically the opposite of justice.

> In May, 2017, Swedish prosecutors announced they were closing their investigation into the sexual assault allegations due to the futility of proceeding in light of Assange’s asylum and the time that has elapsed.

He is still wanted for what the article calls the "minor bail violation" of crossing multiple international borders to flee trial for those charges.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#168

Post by eeeuo » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #29

dmix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way Obama, or any mainstream president, would have done that. He loved the intelligence agencies even more than Bush as it gave the US the same power projection without any of the dirty business being under public scrutiny. The "polite societies" way of do much of the same which was highly criticized in the prior administration. Despite the convenient optics I don't see him being any more liberal on the ma…

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

Leaking secrets is not a freedom of speech issue.

I would agree with you if Snowden narrowly leaked the details of the PRISM program. I think if he did that he would have been a genuine hero. But he didn't. He downloaded as much secret information as he could, and gave them to organizations that were openly hostile to American interests.

Consider the level of detail of methods and sources in the information leaked by Snowden. I think one would have to be extremely naive to believe that Russia and China did not get their hands on the Snowden leaks very quickly(and that's the most charitable interpretation). Therefore, the leaks weakened the US's geopolitical position and improved the position of their rivals.

For a command-in-chief to reward a person who did that with a Medal of Freedom would be a truly baffling choice.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#169

Post by nailer » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 8:02 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #133

nailer wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also wasn't charged with rape, he was sought for questioning. And he consistently offered the Swedish Prosecutor to answer all questions from London, which the Swedish Prosecutor declined.

>He also wasn't charged with rape He couldn't be charged without first being arrested. That's why Sweden issued the EAW.

Again: the EAW was to arrest Assange for questioning.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#170

Post by geofft » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 8:02 PM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #166

geofft wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assange's little difficulties with women ... not everyone has a squeaky clean character To be clear about his "little difficulties", he's been accused of intentionally breaking a condom he was using when having sex with one woman (both of them have stated that the condom broke) and continuing a sexual encounter with another person while refusing to use a condom. As the article states, he's escaped trial because he…

I was not sure how to best describe the 'little difficulties', my personal opinion is that he was less than a perfect gentleman, but I was not there. I do wonder how much his 'heroic freedom fighter' demeanour tied into his bedroom ambitions. Why be a groupie wanting to bed the lead singer of the band when you could become one of Assange's baby-mamas? He wouldn't be the first male to have greedy desires regarding the…

"Rapist" is a pretty good term for it.

And yes, I think that the personality of wanting to be a famous and powerful man and is often correlated with the personality of wanting power over women at any cost. I wasn't there either, so I don't know if that's what happened here, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time those have lined up. However, I'm not sure that this is really about a "partner" - the accusers are two different women who had sex with him within weeks of each other, not someone who he was in a long-term relationship with who then went to the police.

(And yes, I do think that "rapist" is an appropriate term for Bill Clinton, too, but that doesn't seem particularly relevant.)