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The Masculine Mystique of T

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Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#21
Not to be critical, but I find this article to be uncompelling.

I began working out when I was 13. After college post 2010 I experimented with Testosterone, from 200mg a week to 600mg a week. It’s a whole underground culture.

My own experiences were exactly like the stereotype— increased libido, increased muscle mass, increase strength, increase mood swings. The sex drive is palpable. It’s ferocoiously potent, increasing sexual stamina, confidence, euphoric feelings of dominance.

I have coached many pupils in the realm of Testosterone injection. Every single one has experienced the same side effects.

I want to stress something. The endocrine system is vastly complex. Every hormone influences a cascade of other hormones. For this reason, maintaining health (strenuous exercise and a sound diet) is essential for ensuring those side effects are predictable.

For example, when testosterone levels are high, the body naturally wants to convert excess testosterone to other hormones— namely estrogen.

High estrogen can cause all sorts of side effects, including bloat, fat gain, mood swings, acne, and gynomastia. (Think what happens when a woman gets her monthly period... her body is flush with estrogen, and all the accompanying side effects).

To remedy this, you take estrogen blockers. Or AI’s (aromatase inhibitors, which is the enzyme catalyst responsible for converting T into E).

However, some estrogen is good. It is what causes a lot of that well-being and euphoria. Block all estrogen and energy levels plummet.

This is just one. There is DHT, or di-hydro-testosterone, which is 10x more androgenic than testosterone. There is cortisol. There is insulin. There are effects on HGH levels.

The list of cascading influences on the endocrine system is complex.

What else effects hormones? Exercise- circulation and digestion.

Diet. What food you consume effects your sugar levels, which effect your hormones. Your fat and cholesterol consumption affects your hormones. (Cholesterol is the base fat molecule that the body uses to manufacture all other fat based hormones. Without it, hormone levels are depressed, and the endocrine system functions sub optimally).

I say all this because it’s complex.

Human organisms are complex.

If you don’t understand or appreciate the complexity, you’ll ascribe cause where it’s undue.

There is no magic bullet.

We are a complex organism.

I will say, however, that testosterone is powerful.

I am no longer on it today, and I look back and think about how powerfully it affected me psychologically, physically, and emotionally. It definitely can change your life, and you can get addicted to that change. It’s empowering.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a blog post. Basically everything there is not controversial in the relevant fields. The difference in spatial rotation is extremely well replicated: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/19086027_Emergence_... The difference in grip strength: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17186303/ It just is the case that professional women’s sports teams lose to male high school teams regularly: https://www.google.…

I wasn’t concerned about no-brainers like grip-strength, which really in no way bears on the central claims made.

[deleted]

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#23

Intriguing why someone would try to analyze a biological compound through a cultural / political / sociological lens without at least giving some reference to actual scientific research. I have no clue whether anything in this article is true or false. Only that people might have used Testosterone to justify male dominance. Not saying it is false, but like what is the evidence? I just see vague anecdotes and personal…

> Intriguing why someone would try to analyze a biological compound through a cultural / political / sociological lens without at least giving some reference to actual scientific research. I don't think it's all that strange, given the situation. Testosterone appears to be a cultural and even economic phenomenon irrespective of its actual effects. There's a whole franchise chain of doctor's offices branded as "Low T…

My understanding was that they are mainly interested in body-building.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#25

Intriguing why someone would try to analyze a biological compound through a cultural / political / sociological lens without at least giving some reference to actual scientific research. I have no clue whether anything in this article is true or false. Only that people might have used Testosterone to justify male dominance. Not saying it is false, but like what is the evidence? I just see vague anecdotes and personal…

Whenever testosterone comes up, I always think of the study showing testosterone levels change in sports fans according to whether their preferred team wins or loses[1]. The interest for me is not so much in the question of testosterone and dominance, but more to do with how mere perception of events whose meaning is entirely culturally determined can mediate hormone levels in this way. Winning at football is very di…

Winning at football is exactly like winning a fight.

The member of the winning tribe will feel more confident that they will be able to win the next fight/feel more dominant, which correlates well with testosterone levels in my mind.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#26
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was an interesting article

Cochran is a genius, but not for everyone. There are certain facts that are taboo to acknowledge, possibly for good reasons. Cochran does not abide taboos. If you keep reading his stuff, it is very likely to shock and offend you.

Well said.

The trouble with social taboos (even ones that exist for good reasons) is that it can be hard to understand who's being polite, and who's just stupid. Many people are stupid about many things, after all, even when there are no reasons to pretend.

Thus it seems valuable that there are places outside of such conventions. The internet has been very good for this -- things once known only by academic specialists are now open to anyone interested. Sometimes you return to polite society able to better decode what people really know.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testosterone levels in the West have declined by about a factor of two over the past few decades ( https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434 ). Maybe society is indeed sick.

Or maybe it was always sick and is getting better? There’s no war in Europe. No war in the Western Hemisphere. Violent crime in the US is at a multi-decade low. There has been a human in space for the entirety of the 21st century. Most of the world carries a supercomputer with instant access to the sum total of human knowledge in their pocket. We live in an age of marvels. If society is indeed sick then the cure prob…

It'd be a nice theory but we actually know that as men get their testosterone levels lower they get to be at higher and higher risk of certain diseases. For example, testosterone is often cited as carrying risk of CVD and for many years we were confused why men with below low cutoff testosterone are at even higher risk of CVD than men just above high cutoff. As it turns out, estrogen, another sex hormone, pretty important for CV health is made through aromatisation from testosterone in the walls of blood vessels. Thus, surprisingly being low on testosterone actually increases risk of CVD through estrogen insufficiency. Yes, human endocrine system is complicated like that, and no, testosterone is not a fashion or something we can improve because we're smarter. We're studying AAS for about 70 years now and we still know pretty little. Testosterone and estrogen are "kinda" understood as they're mainly endocrine hormones. As for those secreted in para- and autocrine fashion (e.g. DHT) we still know not enough.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#28

Summary: Testosterone doesn’t have well-understood effects because they are complex and affect individuals differently. It’s more like a placebo and symbol of artificial expectations society has about what is “masculine”. The demand for T is a sign that society is sick.

Something I think should pointed out in the article is that the author tries to understand testosterone (I don't know why, since it's effects through maturation are actually quite a bit studied, there are medical textbooks on it) through it's effects on trans people and/or people abusing it or using it for rejuventaion.

If so, the picture is far more complicated.

This actually makes about as much sense as trying to understand Fourier transform based on how stupid instagramming is.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was an interesting article

Cochran is a genius, but not for everyone. There are certain facts that are taboo to acknowledge, possibly for good reasons. Cochran does not abide taboos. If you keep reading his stuff, it is very likely to shock and offend you.

Substitute "genius" with "scientific racist" and "facts" with "unsubstantiated claims about race and sex," and you've got the rest right.

Not everybody is interested in racist/anti-semetic canards[1][2] and claims about gay viruses[3].

[1]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/the-son-also-rises...

[2]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/live-not-by-lies/

[3]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/depths-of-madness/

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#30

As a man in my early twenties, I found myself with a sexual partner for the first time and was dismayed to find that I couldn't achieve orgasm through intercourse. I asked a doctor and he found my testosterone to be very low, well below the "normal range" cutoffs. I was prescribed testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), where I would inject myself every other week with testosterone, not unlike body builders though wi…

It is very poorly studied.

You are under false impression that target of TRT were young men. TRT in young men started to gain popularity in last 10-15 years when years of lifestyle changes amassed to create a society of people "killing" their natural testosterone.

It gets even harder to study it's use in transgender people because of ethics. Testosterone given at different periods of life will give different end results. The scary part is that we know brain development is (and so parts of brain do differ for male/female slightly through sex hormone exposure) affected by sex hormones. What we really don't know is how plastic and indeed which regions are the most critical for proper function past hormonal therapy. Some of the studies actually suggest that hormones, if the need if validated by a psychiatrist actually should be considered early. The interesting part if that it seems fMRI will be the gold standard in these cases.

In regard to sex satisfaction and low testosterone - have you tried totally droping you porn and masturbation use?

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