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PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

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Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#271

As a content creator, once you've recorded and edited your content, you have to solve for a few kinds of things: 1) hosting, content delivery, authentication and access control, styling and UI, etc. 2) discoverability, which requires things like a search engine, recommendation engine, a community/social network, links, etc. 3) some degree of independence, and the freedom to decide what content to show, what content t…

What are the disadvantages of uploading to multiple hosts? Thus you can say benefit from YouTube's funding and discovery and use say Patreon for stable funding, and PeerTube (or Vimeo, &c) for alternative storage. Add to that a website with a nice RSS feed of your videos, and some social media; shouldn't you be ready to go as a professional video artist / content creator with a nice, redundant distribution structure?

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#272

People want viable services not "tech". Red flag: both their concept as well as name have YT's brand name in it. The equivalent of calling your company "Uber for X". I'm all for decentralization where it makes sense - but this seems like they might be shooting themselves in the foot everywhere EXCEPT the tech (which, ultimately won't matter if they fail). From the article: "Online since March 2018 in a beta version,…

They're not raising 60k to defeat youtube. They're raising 60k to complete a piece of software that does some of what youtube does in a different way. That's it. It's an open source project, they're not running on official peertube instance with the goal of being anything more than a demo of the software they're writing.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#273
post #58

I like the idea of PeerTube, but there are many hurdles. Anyone whose ISP/firewall/etc blocks all Torrent traffic is going to have a major challenge - which means that while part of what PeerTube has been so far is educational videos, they're not accessible in most school environments. That's a big challenge to overcome. The other is pretty simple, and a reason I have not used PeerTube to watch a single video. If you…

If you can't access the video via webrtc, it gets served as a regular video directly downloaded from the server.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#275

What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). In the old days we needed YouTube because you needed a Flash encoder if you wanted to make video accessible on the web to everyone. Now anyone can host video on anything. You can throw even throw some comments on the bottom if you want. But what those who create want i…

As a content creator, I disagree. Not all of us are driven to market our content on social platforms. I have my own peertube (as an experiment) instance running that allows me to control the entire viewing experience and that’s more important to me then views, likes, or subs.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not wrong. We have moved towards a world of centralized services because that's what people want. To many people it's the centralized services that "are" the Internet: YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram—that's it. YouTube is the lowest common denominator of video. You aren't going to "fix" its problems with a more complex decentralized network. If you want to solve the problems with YouTube you have to do it w…

> We have moved towards a world of centralized services because that's what people want. No, nobody cares about centralization. Centralization is a mechanism that provides some of the values people do care about; convenience, indexing, free hosting, simple interfaces. But it's a mistake to conflate centralization with the root cause that makes many of these services fail. If centralization was actually what people ca…

Chiming in to say I agree with this viewpoint -- I think conflating centralization as the only way to provide the convenience, indexing, free hosting, etc is definitely what happens when people say that decentralized solutions can't work.

Two big blockers that I rarely see discussed for the decentralized future coming to pass:

- (D)DNS for the 1+ persistent devices per/user (IPV6 support/rollout basically)

- Lowering the barrier to entry for running a server on a users' behalf

If we really want the internet to be a web, we need to make it easier to run servers that act on behalf of users/hold their data, that they control.

If you'll indulge me, I've had in the back of my mind a project for a long time, a - Document management and storage

- Backups (connect your local "pipe" to a backup storage provider)

- Chat/Messaging, SIP + Video conferencing

- Local networked/mesh services spanning from blogging, social networking, ecommerce, whatever.

I'm very much of the I-just-want-to-write-software so I preoccupy myself thinking of what tech I'd use to make it happen, but I think this is the kind of project that people need to really embrace the internet as a sparse group of interconnected nodes.

I also think that humans are ready to accept this kind of structure -- we already have it! People can understand that if you want a storefront to be up all the time, you need to have something run it all the time, the power to run it just isn't in their hands yet.

Of course, startups are hard, hardware startups are harder, and consumer product hardware+software startups are pretty hard, so it's much easier said than done. Decentralized systems absolutely can work, but the amount of work, fore-thought, and careful construction with consideration for generating network effects and making it easier for people to run and use -- basically good product design -- is just missing in the open source world, because it's hard.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not wrong. We have moved towards a world of centralized services because that's what people want. To many people it's the centralized services that "are" the Internet: YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram—that's it. YouTube is the lowest common denominator of video. You aren't going to "fix" its problems with a more complex decentralized network. If you want to solve the problems with YouTube you have to do it w…

> We have moved towards a world of centralized services because that's what people want. No, nobody cares about centralization. Centralization is a mechanism that provides some of the values people do care about; convenience, indexing, free hosting, simple interfaces. But it's a mistake to conflate centralization with the root cause that makes many of these services fail. If centralization was actually what people ca…

I agree completely, but I am very pessimistic when it comes to decentralised publishing platforms. The architectural hurdles are not insurmountable but I think the legal ones are.

Individuals or small organisations simply can't afford to take on the potential liability that comes with letting arbitrary people upload arbitrary stuff to their servers.

If some hosts carry the controversial stuff and others don't, then those who do will be targeted, censored, persecuted and/or sued out of existence, and they don't have money to defend themselves because all the money making stuff is hosted by others.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#278

What the people who want decentralized services don't realize is that the content creators want centralized services (whether they realize it or not). In the old days we needed YouTube because you needed a Flash encoder if you wanted to make video accessible on the web to everyone. Now anyone can host video on anything. You can throw even throw some comments on the bottom if you want. But what those who create want i…

There are more use cases for hosting video than monetized videos.

A few weeks ago Blender was having issues with YouTube trying to twist their arm. They would do fine an another network as long as it’s reasonably easy to use.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#279

As a content creator, once you've recorded and edited your content, you have to solve for a few kinds of things: 1) hosting, content delivery, authentication and access control, styling and UI, etc. 2) discoverability, which requires things like a search engine, recommendation engine, a community/social network, links, etc. 3) some degree of independence, and the freedom to decide what content to show, what content t…

2 and 3 are inherently linked. If you want somebody else to recommend your videos, you're automatically under their control. Expecting a third party to promote your content without caring what content you produce is not realistic. You could definitely build a recommendation system on top of PeerTube, but content creators will be just as beholden to the peertube discovery algorithm, and the assumptions and preferences…

Even if your reasoning is strictly speaking right, the issue is very different in peertube and in youtube (or at least could be, i don't think they have a good recommendation system yet): peertube is a federation and not a monopole. Distributed systems allow to have a clean separation between the an exploration algorithm, its actual policy and the instance hosts. The policy can be very much user-specific, easily with a federated-instance granularity and could be run on an instance which has no link with the content it's searching.

Re: PeerTube, the “Decentralized YouTube”, succeeds in crowdfunding

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don’t know how to go to a podcast’s website, copy the link to the RSS feed, and then paste it into their podcast app. They just search for the podcast in their podcast app. So, if you produce a podcast, you need to be in the major podcast directories to get traction. Thus, in effect, podcasts are highly centralized.

This feels like moving the goalpost to me. If PeerTube succeeded, but most of its videos were being linked and shared on Facebook and Reddit, would you call it centralized? It's fairly common for me to see people share direct links to a podcast's website if they want to share a specific episode. And even from the point of view where iTunes is a centralized indexer, they're still very clearly pointing at a decentraliz…

Note that my original point was not that podcasts are centralized. I merely took issue with somebody else claiming that podcasts are decentralized. They’re decentralized for distribution. But distribution is the easy part on the internet. It’s aggregating attention that is the hard part. And that part of the podcast market is entirely centralized.
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