Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster • Hacker News Board

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#261

Post by akanet » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 11:54 AM UTC

justinator wrote: post #239

ccmonnett wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People train months (and years) to take minutes off their time, especially as their times get lower and the returns diminish. 4% of 3 hours is more than 7 minutes! That could be equivalent to tens of hours on the road. $250 is a _great_ investment at that rate. This is the "Why go to that expensive restaurant?" argument all over again. When it's your hobby, and it's important to you, the thought process behind the pu…

I have to say, running is a little more than a hobby to me, (obsession perhaps?). So I understand how runners think about running, and the gear they purchase for running. There's literally NO WAY I'd buy a pair of shoes I can run in for 100 miles for $250. I wouldn't be able to NOT think about every mile just costing me $2.50. Call me frugal, but that's two pairs of any other shoe, and I can run in those for most of…

I think your justification for your opinion is sound, but I think the justification for the other side is sound as well. An elite runner may have only a handful of marathons in a year they really want to trim time off of, and another $250 on top of the many months (and dollars) that go into training for them seems reasonable. Perhaps the best argument for why this plan seems reasonable is that many ordinary people already seem to be doing it.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#262

Post by teddyh » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 11:58 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #222

hinkley wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When aero gear was introduced to cycling there was quite a bit of turmoil. Not the least of which was the fact that Greg Lemond used it to demolish Laurent Fignon in the last time trail, and jump what seemed to be a comfortable gap and win the Tour. By six seconds. I can still picture Fignon laying on the ground at the finish line, hands clenched in fists wondering where it all went wrong. There were limits then and…

The easiest way to remedy all the cheating with bikes and equipment in cycling would be to PROVIDE official bikes the equipment every single day, and make it rotate randomly. Otherwise, you are always playing catching up to discover the latest tricks they devised.

> make it rotate randomly

In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.

“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky.

“I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied.

“Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky.

“I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.

Minsky then shut his eyes.

“Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.

“So that the room will be empty.”

At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

(http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html#id3141241)

Or, in other words, making something random does not make it fair; it is still just as unfair as before, only unpredictably so.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#263

Post by fma » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:10 PM UTC

lfowles wrote: post #192

crypt1d wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is such a cancellation model common in the US? I didn't think anyone does that anymore, except maybe porn sites. Its a really cheap sales tactic and would probably dissuade me from subscribing in the first place.

My cable provider requires calling in to downgrade services, but adding them can be done with just a click online! I've also seen it occasionally for services like eMeals.

Same with my security provider, SimpleSafe. Gotta call during business hours to cancel for "security reasons", but you can resubscribe or add new features online. The only secure part of canceling via phone is you give a security code... And that code is shown if you log in online.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#264

Post by fma » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

retsibsi wrote: post #210

ccmonnett wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People train months (and years) to take minutes off their time, especially as their times get lower and the returns diminish. 4% of 3 hours is more than 7 minutes! That could be equivalent to tens of hours on the road. $250 is a _great_ investment at that rate. This is the "Why go to that expensive restaurant?" argument all over again. When it's your hobby, and it's important to you, the thought process behind the pu…

But surely the reason people value a 7 minute reduction so highly is because of what it represents -- a successful effort to get fitter and/or mentally tougher. If you're simply 'buying' that reduction, what is the point, unless you're at the level where other benefits (public glory, sponsorship) are within reach?

For someone who wants to brag on Facebook, though...$250 to save 7 minutes might be worth the bragging rights.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#265

Post by extralego » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

bootlooped wrote: post #232

extralego wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked for Nike on ads and in the publishing industry (on branded print content), I am very comfortable saying this is 100% an ad. If it weren’t, it simply wouldn’t be run, because that would justify future Nike ad $$$ to competing publications so as to not clump too much branding in one outlet, a tell-tale sign of a deal . It takes a unique very scenario for a pub like NYT to just hand something like this to…

I think it would be illegal to run this without disclosing that it's an ad.

I don’t. It’s done all the time regardless.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#266

Post by amai » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

I think they didn't answer an important question: Did runners switching back to other shoes get slower again?

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#267

Post by twic » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:56 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #262

ekianjo wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to remedy all the cheating with bikes and equipment in cycling would be to PROVIDE official bikes the equipment every single day, and make it rotate randomly. Otherwise, you are always playing catching up to discover the latest tricks they devised.

> make it rotate randomly In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. “What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said. Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”,…

The point is that everyone would be riding identical bikes. The rotation would be to stop the teams optimising around the quirks of a particular bike.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#268

Post by twic » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

tylerhou wrote: post #205

hinkley wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cycling people are risking lifetime bans to get a 5 or 8% power advantage. Which is doubly amazing because speed goes up with the square root of power due to drag. I’d wager that 3% for a runner is a bigger deal than 6% for a cyclist.

Drag doesn't matter as much at higher levels of cycling, because teams will draft off one another to save energy.

Not in the breakaways, which is where races are won.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#269

Post by lyk » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

amai wrote: post #266

I think they didn't answer an important question: Did runners switching back to other shoes get slower again?

"Runners who improved their performance in Vaporflys and then switched to other shoes got slower.

There were very few runners in our data who met this criterion: We counted just 24 such races. But these runners finished about 7 percent slower on average than they did while wearing the Vaporflys. (Of the 24 races, 17 races were slower, and 7 were faster.)"

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#270

Post by jopsen » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 1:06 PM UTC

rolleiflex wrote: post #172

jopsen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I tried I had to immediately cancel on principal since the pricing was deliberately obscured. Credibility was lost before I could even read the articles.

I concur. They might be a highly respectable news organisation, but their sales team or whoever is coming with their consumer advertising tactics are outright nasty. Deeply discounting the first few periods to let people forget about it and then start to charge X times as much on autopay is pretty much the shadiest tactic that’s still legal.

Oh, it's definitely illegal in the EU.